| Author |
Message |
Jonvil
Registered user
Username: Jonvil
Post Number: 235
Registered: 4-2007
| | Posted on Friday, December 05, 2008 - 4:48 am: |     |
Our ASSURANCE of salvation is not dependent on us but on believing His promises
Rom 14:4 Who are you to judge someone else's servant? To his own master he stands or falls. And he will stand, for the Lord is able to make him stand.
Jude 24 To him who is able to keep you from falling and to present you before his glorious presence without fault and with great joy— 25 to the only God our Savior be glory, majesty, power and authority, through Jesus Christ our Lord, before all ages, now and forevermore! Amen.
Rom 8:28 And we know that in all things God works for the good of those who love him, who have been called according to his purpose. 29 For those God foreknew he also predestined to be conformed to the likeness of his Son, that he might be the firstborn among many brothers. 30 And those he predestined, he also called; those he called, he also justified; those he justified, he also glorified.
31 What, then, shall we say in response to this? If God is for us, who can be against us? 32 He who did not spare his own Son, but gave him up for us all—how will he not also, along with him, graciously give us all things? 33 Who will bring any charge against those whom God has chosen? It is God who justifies. 34 Who is he that condemns? Christ Jesus, who died—more than that, who was raised to life—is at the right hand of God and is also interceding for us. 35 Who shall separate us from the love of Christ? Shall trouble or hardship or persecution or famine or nakedness or danger or sword? 36 As it is written:
"For your sake we face death all day long;
we are considered as sheep to be slaughtered."[l] 37 No, in all these things we are more than conquerors through him who loved us. 38 For I am convinced that neither death nor life, neither angels nor demons, neither the present nor the future, nor any powers, 39 neither height nor depth, nor anything else in all creation, will be able to separate us from the love of God that is in Christ Jesus our Lord.
John 10:25 Jesus answered, "I did tell you, but you do not believe. The miracles I do in my Father's name speak for me, 26 but you do not believe because you are not my sheep. 27 My sheep listen to my voice; I know them, and they follow me. 28 I give them eternal life, and they shall never perish; no one can snatch them out of my hand. 29My Father, who has given them to me, is greater than all; no one can snatch them out of my Father's hand. 30 I and the Father are one."
John 6:35 Then Jesus declared, "I am the bread of life. He who comes to me will never go hungry, and he who believes in me will never be thirsty. 36 But as I told you, you have seen me and still you do not believe. 37 All that the Father gives me will come to me, and whoever comes to me I will never drive away. 38 For I have come down from heaven not to do my will but to do the will of him who sent me. 39 And this is the will of him who sent me, that I shall lose none of all that he has given me, but raise them up at the last day. 40 For my Father's will is that everyone who looks to the Son and believes in him shall have eternal life, and I will raise him up at the last day." |
Jeremy
Registered user
Username: Jeremy
Post Number: 2541
Registered: 10-2004
| | Posted on Friday, December 05, 2008 - 10:17 am: | |
Jrt,
I'll let Colleen answer your questions to her about the parable of the sower, etc., but I just wanted to make a few comments.
"Genuine faith" simply means the actual, living faith that God has given to you as a gift. When He brought your dead spirit to life--eternal life--(what is referred to as "regeneration" or being "born again"), He gave you this faith to trust in Him alone for your salvation, and He eternally saved you at that moment. How do you know if you're saved? "The Spirit Himself testifies with our spirit that we are children of God," (Romans 8:16 NASB).
You can't lose your salvation. You didn't find it, so you can't lose it. God gave it to you, and He's NOT going to take it away.
If you did nothing to gain it, then there is nothing you can do to lose it. God is the one in charge of saving, not us. 
Jeremy |
Jrt
Registered user
Username: Jrt
Post Number: 44
Registered: 10-2008
| | Posted on Friday, December 05, 2008 - 4:21 pm: | |
Jeremy and Jonvil, thank you for your posts . . . I love the scripture texts you used and Jeremy you are right . . . God is the one in charge of saving, not us - I am so thankful!!! I'm hanging on to the none of me - ALL of Him. The idea of being a child of God right now is especially comforting.
Thanks,
JRT |
Colleentinker
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Username: Colleentinker
Post Number: 9099
Registered: 12-2003
| | Posted on Friday, December 05, 2008 - 5:09 pm: | |
Jrt, Jonvil and Jeremy pretty much answered for me--I always really appreciate their insights. I agree: we didn't generate our salvation, and we cannot undo it, either.
The parable of the sower and the seeds has been really significant to me over the years since we have left. At first I struggled with it a lot--very much as I sense you've been dealing with it. The longer I live with Jesus, though, the more that parable makes sense to me from a perspective of KNOWING we are saved!
I've come to see the rocky soil and the weedy field as examples of people with divided hearts. James warns those very early, first Jewish converts to Christianity about not doubting when they pray, not wavering with divided hearts. Here's how I see it right now, and I'm admitting up front that I don't have the whole picture of reality available to me, but this is how I see it.
There are always some people around who are drawn to Christianity. They love the fellowship of church; they're attracted to the message of the gospel; they even like the activities of "church": missions, feeding the homeless, helping with the children, etc. But some of these have a deep entrenchment with personal interests, i.e. making money, houses and lands, even managing their kids' education and social contacts, etc etc.
These people may actually make an intellectual assent to the gospel. They may be drawn to it and decide to commit to their new church life and become involved—but they hold onto a divided heart. On one hand they profess Christ—on the other, they indulge their personal passions. They never surrender to the Lord Jesus all the things in their lives; they try to live with their hearts divided between building their bank accounts and networking—or whatever. These people compare to the field of weeds where worldly cares choke the life of the gospel seed. They never truly repented of their own sin and brokenness and attempt to keep a foot in both camps.
The rocky soil compares to people who are eager and drawn to the gospel; they jump in energetically and become involved and appear to have sprouted a nice, healthy gospel plant. But when life's heat gets turned up, they wither and die. At that point it becomes clear that they had developed no roots. They did not commit their lives to Jesus, being willing to be grounded in Him. They found a new identity in the external things of Christianity but failed to commit their hearts and minds and time to Him, not studying His word, not surrendering to Him privately. When difficulties came, they had nothing to draw on. Their flurry of interest withered because it was never grounded in the reality of the Lord Jesus. They didn't truly drink of the Water of Life.
We can't always know when another person is in one of those categories. All we can know is our own circumstance. As Jeremy and Jon pointed out above, the Holy Spirit testifies with our spirit that we are sons of God. Individuals know whether or not they know Jesus. Those who belong to God know His voice, and NOTHING can take them out of His hands!
The warnings implicit in the parable of the seeds is directed to those people who are dabbling in the gospel. Judas was someone such as this. He was drawn to Jesus; he even was sent out with the disciples when Jesus sent them to the cities of Judah, and he did miracles with the other 11. Yet he betrayed Jesus. His heart never belonged to Jesus alone. He was always compromised. I don't know whether he was in the rocky soil or weedy soil category--perhaps a bit of both—but he never belonged to Jesus alone.
God uses even the double-minded, the shallow-rooted, and the internally compromised when they are acting on their impulse to serve Him. Jesus definitely used Judas along with the other 11. But God does not need only those who are His own to do His work. He used Cyrus, Nebuchadnezzar, Judas, etc etc. The mystery is not that God uses those who are not committed to Him; after all, He is God and sovereign over all!
The mystery to us is the true condition of the hearts of others. Only God knows them. When you KNOW Jesus, you KNOW Him, and you cannot lose your spiritual life, your own new birth. You cannot be "unborn".
I hopes this helps!
Colleen |
Jonvil
Registered user
Username: Jonvil
Post Number: 236
Registered: 4-2007
| | Posted on Friday, December 05, 2008 - 6:46 pm: | |
‘Hey, I feel real good about myself, look at what I’m doing’.
Being double minded is compromise, not surrender. You surrender only when you acknowledge you are defeated, and you know you are defeated when you realize that you are DEAD (in sin), it doesn’t get any more final than that. Unfortunately too many corpses think that because they’re doing ‘stuff’ that they are not really dead.
God’s excels in raising the dead.
Saved by God’s grace alone through faith alone in Christ alone
John Douglas |
Dennis
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Username: Dennis
Post Number: 1546
Registered: 4-2000
| | Posted on Saturday, December 06, 2008 - 6:53 am: | |
John,
Excellent summation about salvation in your post #236.
Jeremy,
Thanks for quoting Romans 8:16 so eloquently. Interestingly, our SDA friends insist that "spirit" always means "breath" in koine Greek. Truly, such careless and unscholarly exegesis would be sacrilegious for this Pauline passage. Salvation is a gift from the Lord alone.
Dennis Fischer |
Raven
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Username: Raven
Post Number: 961
Registered: 7-2004
| | Posted on Saturday, December 06, 2008 - 7:29 am: | |
In our Friday night Bible study group, we're now in the book of Mark. When we came to the parable of the sower and the seed, an interesting point came up that I had never thought of before. Could it be the parable is more about what the sower would experience in sowing the seed? For example, when we witness of Jesus (sow seed) we do that without regard to how it will be received. The fact is, there are many different possibilities of how the seed will be received - all the different scenarios then presented: takes root and produces fruit, goes on rocky ground, Satan snatches away, etc. That doesn't mean that is necessarily the permanent salvational outcome. Maybe later someone else sows seed and someone who the cares of the world previously previously prevented from taking root is now in the group of the seed taking root and producing fruit. I think it changes things a lot to see the parable not as a pronouncement of what will happen salvationally for a person, but an expectation of what will happen at each sowing. |
Jonvil
Registered user
Username: Jonvil
Post Number: 238
Registered: 4-2007
| | Posted on Saturday, December 06, 2008 - 8:41 am: | |
For those who sow the Gospel seed it is not necessary to know how receptive the ground is, that is in God’s hands. He prepares, we sow, He reaps.
I think the point of the parable is that not all seed will grow or even germinate, don’t be discouraged, sow anyway, there will be a harvest
The Gospel is FREE, share with abandon
John Douglas |
Flyinglady
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Username: Flyinglady
Post Number: 6103
Registered: 3-2004
| | Posted on Saturday, December 06, 2008 - 8:52 am: | |
Jonvil said "I think the point of the parable is that not all seed will grow or even germinate, don’t be discouraged, sow anyway, there will be a harvest
The Gospel is FREE, share with abandon".
I like that - share with abandon.
Diana L |
8thday
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Username: 8thday
Post Number: 574
Registered: 11-2007
| | Posted on Sunday, December 07, 2008 - 8:15 pm: | |
I SO wish I could keep up with this forum!! I miss ya'll - but anyway, I have a comment on the sower parable. Recently had this come up in a discussion with someone. They were trying to prove to us you could fall away and be lost after being born again. We were discussing it without actually getting out the Bible to read it all - in context. When I did later, I realized something I'd never seen before.
A sower (a farmer) doesn't just randomly start walking down the street to plant his crop. He has tilled and prepared ground where he intends to grow his harvest. HE (God) has down work beforehand to prepare the good ground to receive the seed. But especially in the time of Christ where seed was scattered by hand, it would fall not just on the cultivated, prepared target, but in the surrounding areas too, not intended to be sown. Just as the word of God goes out and many people hear it, not everyone's hearts have been tilled by the Holy Spirit and ready to receive it. They receive a superficial knowledge, but not the new birth that produces a harvest. It's all God's work - and I have had the word sown in me at times when I was not yet cultivated, and it had no affect. But when the time was right, it bloomed. I can look at that parable and see stages of my life I've been through, but I know now that God has made my heart the good ground. It's nothing of me, and all of Him.
When we go out and sow the word of God - we don't know where the good ground is, but God does.
Just some thoughts - hope it makes some sense.
Sondra |
Flyinglady
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Username: Flyinglady
Post Number: 6108
Registered: 3-2004
| | Posted on Sunday, December 07, 2008 - 9:08 pm: | |
Makes sense to me Sondra. When the right time came for me to grow roots and grow in Christ, in God's time, I grew and am still growing.
Diana L |
Jrt
Registered user
Username: Jrt
Post Number: 45
Registered: 10-2008
| | Posted on Monday, December 08, 2008 - 6:47 am: | |
I don't have time to type much, but I did want to say thank you to all who responded about salvation and the parable of the sower. The discussion and thoughts have been very helpful to me . . . I'm still wrestling a bit with salvation . . . not that I have anything to do with it - I'm certain of that. Over the weekend I asked a question of someone about . . . Can you be in the church and not saved? The person answered, yes, I think many attend church and are not saved. This is a person that attends a "Sunday" Church. I know we can't "DO" anything to be saved and I've heard it said we then can't "DO" anything to be lost . . . So I'm trying to wrap my mind around how people can be in the church, believe that Christ died for their sins, and not be saved . . . I probably am making too much of this . . . and as you know it is coming from a background as a lifer in Adventism - where continuing salvation was based on "What you do" . . . And maybe I'm just awed and trying to wrap my mind around salvation as explained by mainstream Christianity . . . like it is too good to be true - this free gift . . .
Anyways, . . .
JRT |
Colleentinker
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Username: Colleentinker
Post Number: 9102
Registered: 12-2003
| | Posted on Monday, December 08, 2008 - 2:04 pm: | |
Sondra, I love your post above. I agree with you.
JRT, I so understand your mental struggle with this. Mine was so like yours as I was leaving. What I'm understanding now is that salvation is entirely about whether or not we have life in our spirits. Are be born again and indwelt by the Holy Spirit or not?
People can "like" church and the community and can actually know that Jesus died for sin. But they can deeply resist surrendering. As Sondra said above, their hearts have not been tilled by the Holy Spirit. Like the Pharisees, they may actually hear the truth, look the Truth directly in the face, and refuse it. Like the rich young ruler, they may be keeping all the Law and aspiring to holy living and achieving salvation--but they are not willing to forsake what they love in their lives and follow Jesus if it means they may lose what identifies them in the world.
Like Judas, they may actually be drawn to Jesus and support His cause. They may publicly identify with Him--they may even be "spiritual leaders" who heal and preach and may even bring people (whose hearts have been tilled by the Holy Spirit) to hear the gospel and trust Jesus. Yet when the crisis of life comes, they reveal themselves to be charlatans. They like the Christian community for personal reasons only they may know. Perhaps it's reputation or income or power or identity or good works.
But when the crunch is on, they defect or reveal deep corruption or heresy. These have given intellectual assent to the gospel, but they have never surrendered their lives to the Lord Jesus. They have not been willing to give up their own lives for the Life of Jesus.
I want to suggest that you listen to Gary Inrig's sermon from yesterday. (By the way, this short series is so profound; it's based on John 1:1-18). You can hear or watch it here: http://www.trinityonline.org/cgi-bin/MediaList.cgi?section=
Colleen
(Message edited by admin on December 12, 2008) |
Raven
Registered user
Username: Raven
Post Number: 962
Registered: 7-2004
| | Posted on Monday, December 08, 2008 - 2:58 pm: | |
Awesome, Sondra - that's kind of what I was getting at with my post, but you said it so much better and completed the thoughts. I'll have to share that with our Friday night group! |
Rejoycing
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Username: Rejoycing
Post Number: 62
Registered: 5-2007
| | Posted on Monday, December 08, 2008 - 6:59 pm: | |
Raven, I attended the Bible study group and miss it. Hope to see you and the group as soon as possible. I'm sure you are having a good study in Mark. |
Jrt
Registered user
Username: Jrt
Post Number: 46
Registered: 10-2008
| | Posted on Tuesday, December 09, 2008 - 5:02 pm: | |
I hope I can articulate well enough . . . I just listened to Gary Inrig's sermon that you suggested, Colleen. Very good . . . understanding, assent, and finally trust . . .
I guess for me I don't trust myself or what I know or understand anymore . . . you see, I thought I understood the gospel as an Adventist . . . I really thought I was headed in the right direction . . . I believed in Jesus - heck, I even led others in the prayer to accept Jesus as their personal Savior. . . I think of one instance in particular where the gal I was praying with accepted Jesus and both of us were in tears at the end of the prayer . . .
Have I fully trusted Jesus now? As I make my journey out of Adventism . . . How can I know? I think I have . . . This summer in a "Sunday keeping" womans living room I prayed that Jesus would be in me and I in Him - I repented/confessed my sins once again . . . I wanted Jesus to have all of me and I wanted all of Him . . . but Do I completely trust Jesus? When life throws me something will I fall and not trust - (in all honesty, probably yes) . . . Will I want to - NO. How can I know if I've fully given Jesus my life - every part - or trust Him with every part . . . I think I have - but can I be sure . . .
I understand Gary's use of saying the Spirit causes us to trust . . .
I guess because in the past I thought I knew/understood, but inside I knew something just wasn't quite right . . . Now, I just don't trust myself about religious or spiritual things . . .
Can I truly know that I am saved? . . . I hope this makes sense . . . 1 John 5:11-13 says if you have the Son you have life . . . but I thought I had/believed in the Son when in Adventism . . . and my understandings were incorrect . . .
Sorry, guess I'm going round and round in circles.
JRT |
Jrt
Registered user
Username: Jrt
Post Number: 47
Registered: 10-2008
| | Posted on Tuesday, December 09, 2008 - 5:13 pm: | |
Just read my post for the umpteenth time above and I realize it sounds like I have something to do with salvation - and I know that I don't! Christ gives us everything we need . . . and that would include total trust in Him/ genuine faith, etc. . . . Do I have that . . . I want total trust . . . I want genuine faith . . . I want to be a plant that grows deep roots . . . But I wanted and I remember praying that God would be in control of my life when I was an Adventist . . .
I think I better stop - cause I'm tired and I am going round and round in circles . . . Sorry, . . .
JRT |
River
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Username: River
Post Number: 3846
Registered: 9-2006
| | Posted on Tuesday, December 09, 2008 - 5:38 pm: | |
JRT,
Would you mind terribly if I threw a couple scripture at you?
James 1:2 My brethren, count it all joy when ye fall into divers temptations;
James 1:3 Knowing this, that the trying of your faith worketh patience.
You are in a trial of your faith brother, a blind man could see that you are serious and genuine. Just try to relax because God will and is doing a work in you. He knows your heart. I am confident that I see an humble heart in you.
I am going to pray for you as soon as I get this posted.
No, I am going to do it now.
Dear Father, I lift up my brother to you, you know his heart, you know his goings out and his comings in like no other, I pray that he will find rest in his heart.
Father I ask this, nothing doubting, in Jesus precious name. Amen.
River |
Animal
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Username: Animal
Post Number: 342
Registered: 7-2008
| | Posted on Tuesday, December 09, 2008 - 6:37 pm: | |
Dear Lord...
Thank you for my friend River..
He is such an inspiration to me and others on this forum. Continue to bless him and his ministry to others...Amen |
Asurprise
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Username: Asurprise
Post Number: 564
Registered: 7-2007
| | Posted on Tuesday, December 09, 2008 - 8:04 pm: | |
JRT; I can SO relate! One temptation I get hit with from time to time, is doubting my salvation. The Bible though, says to "believe on the Lord Jesus Christ, and you will be saved." Acts 16:31. I have to keep asking for the Lord's help with that doubt which mysteriously (or not so mysteriously, considering the war we as believers are in) assails me from time to time. I HATE being hit with that doubt. For awhile I agonize over it, pleading with the Lord for His help, and then I remember that verse and others, and remind myself that yes, I'm saved.
Another thing that the Lord reminds me of is my relationship to Him which also shows that I'm saved. After I was saved, I felt His love for me and His Presence. I never felt that as an Adventist. Never never never!
Also after over five decades as an Adventist, legalism jumps right into my mind from time to time. I hate that tendency to want a checklist for doing right. That's some "baggage" from Adventism too.
Awhile back, I felt the Lord convicting my heart over the better part of a day that ALL my future sins were forgiven, even my legalistic ones. That's Biblical though, because when a believer accepts the Lord's completed work, he/she is totally forgiven - past, present and future. Places where the Bible shows that that's the case are verses like what the apostle John wrote in 1st John 2:12 "I am writing to you, little children, because your sins have been forgiven you for His name's sake." He couldn't have written that if the believers future sins weren't forgiven.
Also the apostle Paul wrote: "For by grace you HAVE BEEN saved..." Ephesians 2:8,9 (see also 2nd Timothy 1:9 and Titus 3:4,5)
I couldn't have believed that as an Adventist, because Ellen White completely contradicted it. |
Raven
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Username: Raven
Post Number: 963
Registered: 7-2004
| | Posted on Wednesday, December 10, 2008 - 3:53 am: | |
Rejoycing, come anytime! |
Colleentinker
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Username: Colleentinker
Post Number: 9113
Registered: 12-2003
| | Posted on Wednesday, December 10, 2008 - 4:00 pm: | |
Jrt, I also SO KNOW what you are describing! Your experience is common to most of us.
Jrt, you have trusted Jesus; You believe He died for you sin. You also know that you want to follow Him and believe Him. You are already taking steps away from what your own study has shown you are unbiblical beliefs. You can know—regardless of what your feelings tell you—that you are trusting Jesus because you are committing yourself to His word and to prayer, opening yourself to His leading.
The doubt and fear are part of the spiritual attack that is inevitable when we leave false religion. Additionally, our worldview must change; it is not easy to begin to think "inside-out" from our dark heritage. Our heads doubt our own rationality!
But God is greater than our hearts and more consistent than our heads. The antidote to these fears is prayer and returning to the Bible promises that declare Jesus' finished work and our total safety and security in Him. The fact that you are even able to question and see that Adventism contradicts the Bible is proof that the Holy Spirit is working in you. The fact that you have been able to make choices in your life that stand on truth even when others are angry or misunderstanding is proof that the Holy Spirit is at work!
You can trust Jesus. He is in the business of rescuing us and renewing our minds. He is faithful, and even when you don't trust yourself, you can trust His eternal power and divine nature that is giving you His own life and perspective. He will not deceive you, Jrt--even when your own internal echoes of the past attempt to deceive you.
It is most amazing that God has revealed His own will and purposes in His Word. We can trust it when nothing else seems certain. We can actually believe what it says!
I just want to throw out the challenge to you (to us all) that Gary gave us as a congregation: memorize John 1:1-18. The absolute truth of God is there.
Colleen |
Jrt
Registered user
Username: Jrt
Post Number: 48
Registered: 10-2008
| | Posted on Thursday, December 11, 2008 - 3:27 pm: | |
River, - Thank you for your prayer - sooo appreciated and you can throw scripture at me anytime you want. Your kind support and prayers are valued immensely!!! I've read your other posts and have been blessed by your insights and clarity.
Asurprise - Thank you, too, for sharing your experience . . . I, too, hate this being hit with doubt and the checklist or "formula" cropping up into my understanding of spirituality or salvation. It is nice to know that I am not alone in feeling this way and others have felt it too - not that I wish it on anyone.
Colleen, Thank you too, for the encouragement. Yes, spiritual attack, . . . "thinking inside out " is a new experience. I have heard SDA's say in past conversations that our behavior must spring from a relationship with God. But the words they (SDA's) say don't 'jive' with the doctrine or the fruits that are displayed sometimes in their lives.
I read John 1:1-18 before I went to bed last night . . . and yes, it spoke to me . . . the wrestling has lessened and is almost gone - thanks for all the prayers and good scripture.
Colleen, I hope you don't mind if I quote you briefly from an email you sent - "Sing, heaven and earth—'to all who received him, to those who believed in his name, he gave the right to become children of God—children born not of natural descent, nor of human decision or a husband’s will, but born of God' (John 1:12-13).
The light shines in the darkness—but the darkness has not overcome it."
It is true that "something" has changed inside of me . . . I don't think I can put words to it . . . but I feel like I see things with new eyes - I read scripture with new eyes. Spiritual things have a "wonder", "awe", for me now. Yet, as you can see - I trip and fall as I try to find my footing on the Rock and in His word.
They say that the Truth will set you free, but first it will make you miserable . . . guess that is true coming out of Adventism . . . I have a long road ahead . . . but I'm thankful that 'the darkness cannot overcome the Light'.
JRT |
Martin
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Username: Martin
Post Number: 14
Registered: 11-2008
| | Posted on Friday, December 12, 2008 - 3:43 pm: | |
Hi JRT!
I can relate with what you just said...
"It is true that "something" has changed inside of me . . . I don't think I can put words to it . . . but I feel like I see things with new eyes - I read scripture with new eyes. Spiritual things have a "wonder", "awe", for me now."
For about a month and a half now, since I started into this road of discovery and rethinking about my faith, I feel that my interest and the way I think about what I read in the Bible has changed somehow.
It's very hard to explain, but it's like if something now simply "clicks" right.
And I feel a lot more moved about spiritual things than before, even if those could be considered to be "simple things"... A couple of days ago I went to a Carol service that the Christian Union organized to invite fellow students, and that felt very good.
Another day this week I had been walking around the city to do some shopping, and then I came into the cathedral to rest for a moment. I had been going through a bit of unrest inside of me due to several things and those few minutes I spent inside the building, in silence and praying, were extremely powerful to make me feel better!
Definitely, something is different even if I can't point what it is.
(Message edited by Martin on December 12, 2008) |
Animal
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Username: Animal
Post Number: 345
Registered: 7-2008
| | Posted on Friday, December 12, 2008 - 7:34 pm: | |
The Difference is JESUS !!!!!
Praise His holy name !!!! |
Animal
Registered user
Username: Animal
Post Number: 346
Registered: 7-2008
| | Posted on Friday, December 12, 2008 - 7:36 pm: | |
The difference is JESUS !!!
Praise His wonderful name !!!! |
Colleentinker
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Username: Colleentinker
Post Number: 9133
Registered: 12-2003
| | Posted on Friday, December 12, 2008 - 11:01 pm: | |
Yes! The difference is that now you are spiritually alive and connected to God directly by the Holy Spirit indwelling you. You are experiencing what 1 Corinthians 2 describes concerning spiritual things being spiritually discerned. The wisdom of men (the natural mind) cannot understand the things of God. Only the Spirit of God can grasp His own truth.
It's amazing!
Colleen |
Asurprise
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Username: Asurprise
Post Number: 567
Registered: 7-2007
| | Posted on Saturday, December 13, 2008 - 11:08 am: | |
The Bible says that salvation is a free gift. Despite SDAs always saying "we're saved by grace" "we're saved by grace," they don't really believe it deep down. All the cults have works to one degree or another. I wonder if people who've been raised in real Christianity take salvation for granted sometimes. Those of us who've been in works religions can hardly believe that there REALLY isn't anything we need to do ourselves, but there it is in the Bible. FREE GIFT. (Romans 5:15, etc.)
I watched a video or DVD awhile back of people who'd come out of the FLDS cult. One lady told her testimony and then started crying. From what she said she still felt uncertain about her salvation and most of her tears seemed to be from that.
It's horrible what a cult does to a person - how it's so hard to grasp simple things like salvation. Now I've struggled with this (and still struggle from time to time), myself.
An evangelist named Charles Finney who lived about the same time as William Miller and whom the Lord used mightily to bring MANY MANY people to Himself, wrote in his autobiography, concerning his conversion:
quote: "Just at this point the whole question of Gospel salvation opened to my mind in a manner most marvelous to me at the time. I think I then saw, as clearly as I ever have in my life, the reality and fullness of the atonement of Christ. I saw that His work was a finished work; and that instead of having, or needing, any righteousness of my own to recommend me to God, I had to submit myself to the righteousness of God through Christ. Gospel salvation seemed to me to be an offer of something to be accepted; and that it was full and complete; and that all that was necessary on my part, was to get my own consent to give up my sins, and accept Christ. Salvation, it seemed to me, instead of being a thing to be wrought out, by my own works, was a thing to be found entirely in the Lord Jesus Christ, who presented Himself before me as my God and my Savior." |
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