| Author | Message | ||
| Joyfulheart Registered user Username: Joyfulheart Post Number: 385 Registered: 10-2006 |
Just wondering...anyone been ingathered, yet? My former church went yesterday. I just wanted to contrast my former "ingathering days" - which I thoroughly enjoyed with my experience tonight. I did like going Christmas caroling with my Adventist church family. We always had a good time. We always returned for hot apple cider and hot chocolate (with caffeine - never understood that one). We always had a Christmas party with a white elephant gift exchange. I have good memories... But I also remember the deception. I remember being told not to say we were Adventists. We were just supposed to be collecting for disaster relief. We were told to stand in a postcard picture set up with the children in front and equal numbers of people on both sides. The person collecting the money at the door told us in front of everyone, that they were to show a five dollar bill in their hands as they gave out the literature. The elder explaining it said he tried a ten and even a twenty, but that they didn't work. If people saw a five - they gave a five. People that gave $20.00 always got an extra song. We wore Santa hats or reindeer antlers and sang as many secular as sacred Christmas carols. The Jingle Bells and Rudolph's bothered me - not because I think they're wrong, but that we were supposedly ministering to them. Tonight I went Christmas caroling with my sister's church. We had so much fun! We didn't collect a cent! There was no uncomfortable silence about who would go to the door to ask for the money! We prayed before we went - not that we would get enough money, but that people would be ministered to and think of Jesus and His birth. We prayed that each household we visited would come to know Jesus. Our carol booklets had only Christian carols - nothing secular as we wanted to draw people to the Christ of Christmas. They were called Christmas Carols for a Chilli night. We returned to the church for Chilli and a very fun game night. The focus was so different this year! I just praise the Lord! Tonight was so much fun - and so Christ centered! | ||
| Philharris Registered user Username: Philharris Post Number: 1238 Registered: 5-2007  |
Joyfulheart, Ingathering here? Wow, that would be an event. There are not many Adventist around here and I live out of town in the woods. We don't even get trick-or-treaters on halloween. But alas, we did get a JW at the door a couple a weeks ago. About the only evidence of SDAs is the empty 'Signs of The Times' stand in our nearby town which is really only a village. Phil | ||
| Flyinglady Registered user Username: Flyinglady Post Number: 6142 Registered: 3-2004  |
My last story of ingathering is that people quit going. The church was assessed $25 per person by the conference. I had been attending sporadically and my name had not been removed from the church books yet. One night I got a phone call from the pastor's wife. she asked me when I was going to give my $25. I was shocked to say the least as she was not the church treasurer. So I told her it was none of her business as she was not the church treasurer and should not be calling me. I do not remember the rest of the conversation. I think she hung up the phone. I did write a letter to the conference about her as she was not supposed to do that. That is my last memory of ingathering. Now, 2 years ago at my church the singles club, which included all ages at the time, went to various peoples houses and sang Christmas carols to them. It was fun and we all had a good time. I think we are going to do something like that this year. I have to check. Diana L (Message edited by Flyinglady on December 14, 2008) | ||
| Mommamayi Registered user Username: Mommamayi Post Number: 695 Registered: 12-2007  |
I have fond memories of ingathering from my growing up years, but when I look back on it, it's like you say Joyfulheart. Now I'm excited to experience the contrast with our new church, as there is caroling next Saturday. Thanks for sharing about the differences! | ||
| Sparrow Registered user Username: Sparrow Post Number: 23 Registered: 10-2008  |
As my former (childhood) church grew smaller in numbers and older in age, they switched from live carolers to canned music blaring from a car-top sound system. My dad (now age 82) says he can barely stand Christmas carols to this day because of sitting in the driver's seat during ingathering days. No ingathering groups have come to my neighborhood in the past 15 years. I don't know if they go ingathering. A week ago Friday night at our city tree-lighing event, the SDA church-school bell choir performed a few songs. I thought it was interesting that they were out on a Friday night after sunset. | ||
| Flyinglady Registered user Username: Flyinglady Post Number: 6145 Registered: 3-2004 |
I have never had any ingathering at my house, either in Virginia or here in Nevada. The SDAs that were meeting 5 minutes from me no longer meet there and they did not do ingathering, that I know of. I was hoping they did and I could talk to them when they came to my house. Our awesome God will bring to my path those He wants to bring. Diana L | ||
| Lifeanew Registered user Username: Lifeanew Post Number: 175 Registered: 10-2007 |
Wow! I was just getting on line to ask about ingathering and discovered this thread. Does anyone know the history of ingathering? When and who started it within the SDA church? We were just having a discussion about where the money went after being collected. As a kid I remember being told to ask for donations for "the poor and needy". Who were the poor and needy? People in the community or Adventist poor and needy? I also remember being told about holding the five dollar bills and the assigned standing arrangements. Last year we went caroling with our new church at the Veteran's hospital, no money collecting, just singing. What a blessing it was to have many of the patients follow us down the hall and sing with us. | ||
| River Registered user Username: River Post Number: 3878 Registered: 9-2006  |
Never heard of an "Ingathering" before this thread. It sounds "Witchy" like the word "Coven" and "Gobblin". Brrrrrr! River | ||
| Flyinglady Registered user Username: Flyinglady Post Number: 6147 Registered: 3-2004 |
Once a year between Thanksgiving and Christmas the SDA churches would go out and ask for money for missions. It was called Ingathering. I think EGW thought of it, but I am not sure. I did not do it before I left adventism because it was to cold to take my son out at night during this time of year. And my last experience with it is written above. I get shivers just thinking of it. Diana L | ||
| Wolfgang Registered user Username: Wolfgang Post Number: 254 Registered: 10-2005 |
I hated ingathering because of the deception thing,I only went 2 times. Then I could'nt do it anymore. I remember my inlaws talking about when they were at acedemy in the 50's they would have competition on who would get the most $$. Or some would just use it as an excuse to sneak off with thier boy/girl friend. | ||
| Colleentinker Registered user Username: Colleentinker Post Number: 9135 Registered: 12-2003  |
Joyfulheart, what a great experience you had last night!! I remember ingathering as a mixed bag: it was definitely social, especially during academy and college--and it was embarrassing. I usually managed not to have to go to the doors! The whole thing of singing carols in the cold night air was fun--and I liked surprising the people with the caroling. It was all so self-serving, though...that "collecting for the poor and needy" was such a benign way of presenting something that was conference mandated and quota-ed. Praising God for freedom, Colleen | ||
| Ardyj Registered user Username: Ardyj Post Number: 92 Registered: 8-2006  |
It started as Harvest Ingathering and gradually "morphed" to just ingathering and doing the Carols. I disliked it intensely as a kid, but usually went along with it as a good little adventist. Even later on took our children caroling and "gathering" once in a while. We were given little cans which we were supposed to "bait" with a dollar bill sticking out of the top. We were told to emphasize that the funds would stay in the community and mention the Community Services (Dorcas). Some of the members went to the businesses for soliciting money. Several years even before we left adventism, ingathering as such had ceased and there was a quota for each member. I think that's even stopped too. Oh my, what a crock! Blessings in Christ, Ardj | ||
| Blessed Registered user Username: Blessed Post Number: 243 Registered: 1-2007 |
I haven't thought about this for many years. The only time I participated is when I attended Academy and we actually took time away from the classroom to do this. I remember asking for money for "those who were less fortunate than ourselves". You mentioned the little cans. I remember them having a candle that lit up by a battery and there was a slot in the front for people to put their money in. Does this ring a bell with anyone. I also do remember having to say that the funds stayed in Canada. I have no clue as to what they did with the money. Since leaving 39 years ago I have never had Adventists come to my door and ask for money. I wonder if they still do this up here. | ||
| 8thday Registered user Username: 8thday Post Number: 595 Registered: 11-2007  |
Being a pk - we went ALOT. Even after my dad left the ministry, we still went with my mom at the big city church we ended up in. I probably didn't go after about 6th or 7th grade, but I always loved it. I had no idea we were doing anything unethical and enjoyed the fun afterward with the hot chocolate and apple cider. I was so bummed when people decided it was just easier to give out of their own pockets than to go out. Our last church, as an adult, never went out. They just told us how much we needed to give, like Diana's church. I'm sure now I could never stomach it. As a kid I was oblivious to the manipulation and misuse of funds, and exploiting Christmas for your own ends. Sick. Salvation isn't free, and neither are our Christmas carols! =) Please forgive my dark, sarcastic mood today. Time to go find a happy place. ha. Sondra | ||
| Colleentinker Registered user Username: Colleentinker Post Number: 9156 Registered: 12-2003 |
Sondra, thank you for you! I so understand... As you said, Ardyj, "What a crock..." Ingathering was another facet of the systemic deception. Colleen (Message edited by Colleentinker on December 18, 2008) | ||
| Freedom55 Registered user Username: Freedom55 Post Number: 4 Registered: 3-2008 |
As a young pastor in the Adventist Church, I was told that if we didn't raise our ingathering goal we would not be long in the ministry. I couldn't understand the heavy hand of the conference administration in this regard until I found out that 50% of the funds raised was kept by the local conference to pay for our church schools. Thus the deception. I had always been told to say that the funds were for the poor & needy, and here the funds were being used to support our own education system. I was appalled. At my last pastoral posting, we actually voted as a church not to ingather because we felt it was unethical to use funds received from the public to support our school system. Apparently, the Conference had become so dependent on the money raised from ingathering that it became one of the pastor's main jobs. And here I thought we were supposed to preach the good news!! | ||
| Flyinglady Registered user Username: Flyinglady Post Number: 6164 Registered: 3-2004 |
Freedom55, I have not seen you on here until now, so I want to welcome you to FAF. Thanks for telling us where 50% of the ingathering money went. That is so deceptive. I am so glad I quit going even as an Adventist and did not feel guilty about not giving my $25. Thank you awesome God for taking care of me even when I did not know you. Diana L | ||
| Jeremy Registered user Username: Jeremy Post Number: 2555 Registered: 10-2004  |
Freedom55, Welcome to the forum. I thought I had heard something like that before, about the money not really going to the "poor & needy" but to Adventist education or something, instead. Just more deception. Jeremy | ||
| Colleentinker Registered user Username: Colleentinker Post Number: 9165 Registered: 12-2003 |
Most interesting, Freedom55! Somehow I'm not surprised--yet I still feel a certain startle response... Colleen | ||
| Asurprise Registered user Username: Asurprise Post Number: 575 Registered: 7-2007 |
Welcome Freedom55!  I try to remember to greet everybody, but I don't always read everything and sometimes by the time I notice someone, they've been on the forum for quite awhile and then it's kind of late to greet them. | ||
| Gcfrankie Registered user Username: Gcfrankie Post Number: 278 Registered: 1-2007 |
Welcome Freedom 55, I had not heard this but I did hear about the pastors being paid by the GC and then having to tithe which I never understood. My question has always been why wasn't the tithe held out of their paycheck like a deduction. I am not that familiar with the old testment but from what I have read, I didn't read where the Levites paid tithe when serving in the temple but the people gave their offerings for their sins. So shouldn't this also apply to the sda church as they want to keep the ot laws? Just a thought. Gail | ||
| Lifeanew Registered user Username: Lifeanew Post Number: 178 Registered: 10-2007 |
I recently asked some SDA family members about caroling and ingathering as I wondered if this was still practiced. They told me the church now takes corporate donations rather than going door to door. I asked them what corporations donated and who collected them, they said they didn't really know. When I was a kid we would always hide behind the adults when we went to the door. None of us wanted to be the solicitor. Our conversation went something like this. "Who wants to go to the door?" "I don't want to." "Me either, you go." "No, you go." I always had an excuse prepared as to why I should sing. My best excuses were the ones I learned from the adults, which usually was, lets let the youngest go. Seeing a little kid beg for the less fortunate would melt the hearts of potential givers. So deceptive. I always wondered where the donations went, I really thought it went to the poor and needy. My husband told me he heard once that the denotations gotten from "outsiders" gave them a chance to give the poor and needy overseas. The idea alluded to the notion that letting them give to our work, gave them the opportunity to get some sort of credit for works and possible small part in salvation. | ||
| Dennis Registered user Username: Dennis Post Number: 1563 Registered: 4-2000  |
HARVEST INGATHERING The gradual decline of the long-held, Adventist tradition of caroling and door-to-door Ingathering came about when ADRA (Adventist Development and Relief Association) became a partner to distribute U.S. Government commodities as a NGO. Therefore, the SDA Church was no longer solely dependent upon the members in the pew for funding. Moreover, this affiliation with the U. S. Government enhanced their public image worldwide. Remember the days when they put a guilt trip on all SDA members to either solicit or contribute a preset personal Ingathering goal? Some SDA church bulletins listed weekly the names of members who had met their Ingathering goal. Remember how we used to lie to the public by telling them we were merely soliciting funds for "the poor and the needy"? In actuality, most of the money solicited went to Adventist evangelism, Adventist education, etc. Interestingly, Jasper Wayne, the Iowan who originated the idea of the annual Ingathering Appeal and later approved by Ellen White, was supposedly a non-tither. He figured out a way to compensate for his lack of personal giving. Nevertheless, Ellen White jumped on the band wagon to solicit funds from the public. She always seemed most eager to embrace any method or device to enrich her church--even a Sabbath School Christmas tree (without any decoration or lights) for the sole purpose of fundraising by hanging paper money on it. Dennis Fischer | ||
| Dennis Registered user Username: Dennis Post Number: 1564 Registered: 4-2000 |
HARVEST INGATHERING--Part II Like many of you faithfully did every year as Adventist members, I also have walked many, many miles "Ingathering" for the SDA Church in all kinds of weather. In addition, I solicited many businesses which was far more mentally-taxing than caroling. My mother used to solicit from local businesses with our pastor. The common impression, where I grew up in western North Dakota, was that Adventist preachers only showed up at your farmhouse when they wanted money (smile). However, when the hardworking SDA farmers would show up at the preacher's house to mutually engage in business solicitation, they often had to wait while the pastor took off his comfy slippers and got ready for the day. Oh yes, remember the boiling hot chocolate after an evening of caroling on ice and snow? I was notorious in getting my tongue burned (smile). Apparently, they (Pathfinders and volunteers) had no easy way to keep the hot chocolate within consumable temperature. Obviously, they were not savvy in preparing hot drinks with no coffee-making expertise. Dennis Fischer | ||
| Freedom55 Registered user Username: Freedom55 Post Number: 9 Registered: 3-2008 |
From my experience as both a pastor & conference administrator, I believe that the SDA church became "addicted" to the money raised by ingathering in much the same way as governments have become "addicted" to the money raised by gambling. Ingathering may have been started with good intentions i.e. raising money to assist the poor (although even this may be questionable in light of Dennis' comments above), but it quickly became a cash cow for the church to the point where they could not live without it. Budgets were based on the amount of funds raised the previous year, individual goals were established by the heirarchy and pastors were held responsible for raising the alloted goals. I recall many annual pastors meetings where certain pastors who didn't reach their goal were held up to ridicule by the Conference. I even heard one Conference President state that it was our job to "fleece" the sheep. Once you see that the Conferences were using Ingathering funds to balance their budgets, you can understand the great emphasis placed on reaching your goals. And they became addicted to the money. I believe it has all changed now, at least in my area. We don't hear much about Ingathering, although ADRA now contacts people directly. Times have changed, but I'm still haunted by the past actions of a church that claims to be the remnant church but engaged in such unethical practices. |
