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Has anyone heard?Flyinglady12-19-08  2:41 pm
Archive through December 19, 2008Bobj20 12-19-08  4:52 pm
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Bobj
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Username: Bobj

Post Number: 388
Registered: 1-2006


Posted on Friday, December 19, 2008 - 4:58 pm:   Edit PostDelete PostPrint Post   Move Post (Moderator/Admin Only)

Great quotes, Jeremy!

A sincere SDA recently made this comment to me: "Well, I know Satan is very powerful, but if I'm saved . . . "

I have no memory of anything he said after that, just that I was thinking, Hey, do you think if you asked Satan real nice, sort of, you know, real friendly, that he might let you be saved?

Ellen's influence is just stunning.

Bob
Freedom55
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Username: Freedom55

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Posted on Friday, December 19, 2008 - 5:30 pm:   Edit PostDelete PostPrint Post   Move Post (Moderator/Admin Only)

I too have heard this before and, I must confess, have used the argument to try and explain away the problem. How blind I must have been. Brainwashed is more like it. Was blind, but now I see. I appreciate Colleen's comments from Dale, "It can never begin with falsehood and morph into truth." So very true!
Dennis
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Posted on Friday, December 19, 2008 - 7:28 pm:   Edit PostDelete PostPrint Post   Move Post (Moderator/Admin Only)

The Greek verb rendered "work out" in Philippians 2:12 means "to continually work to bring something to fulfillment or completion." It cannot refer to salvation by works, but it does refer to the believer's responsibility for active pursuit of obedience in the process of sanctification. The "fear and trembling" involves a healthy fear of offending God and a righteous awe and respect for Him. Our Lord works through us by His indwelling Spirit. All in all, we can't work out something that hasn't been worked in.

Dennis Fischer
Javagirl
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Posted on Friday, December 19, 2008 - 8:02 pm:   Edit PostDelete PostPrint Post   Move Post (Moderator/Admin Only)

Hi Freedom55. Welcome. Glad you are joining the free and the brave. :-)
Lori
Freedom55
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Username: Freedom55

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Registered: 3-2008
Posted on Friday, December 19, 2008 - 8:39 pm:   Edit PostDelete PostPrint Post   Move Post (Moderator/Admin Only)

Hi Lori. Thanks for the welcome. I have been silently reading the posts for some time. They have all been quite helpful to me. I continue to be amazed at how much my thinking was shaped by EGW. I don't know how "brave" I am, but certainly in Christ I am now free and there's no turning back.
Flyinglady
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Username: Flyinglady

Post Number: 6165
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Posted on Friday, December 19, 2008 - 10:02 pm:   Edit PostDelete PostPrint Post   Move Post (Moderator/Admin Only)

Freedom55, I welcomed you in another thread. It is thrilling to have God show me how much He has changed me and my thinking. Isn't freedom wonderful. We are now free to worship Jesus Christ as He wants us to worship Him. I think He is awesome.
Diana L
Colleentinker
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Posted on Friday, December 19, 2008 - 11:31 pm:   Edit PostDelete PostPrint Post   Move Post (Moderator/Admin Only)

Freedom55--Welcome! I'm so glad you've joined us! We look forward to getting to know you.

Colleen
River
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Username: River

Post Number: 3885
Registered: 9-2006


Posted on Saturday, December 20, 2008 - 4:57 am:   Edit PostDelete PostPrint Post   Move Post (Moderator/Admin Only)

Hi Freedom55 and welcome.

I had a stupid dream last night that I had broken one of my close Adventist friends 'rules' and he refused to forgive me no matter what I did to try and straighten it out. I know it was only a silly dream, but if left me feeling as if all Adventist carry a grudge at never beens if it involves their doctrine.
River

P.S. Perhaps it wasn't such a silly dream after all.
Surfy
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Username: Surfy

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Posted on Saturday, December 20, 2008 - 8:54 am:   Edit PostDelete PostPrint Post   Move Post (Moderator/Admin Only)

"Work out your own salvation with fear and trembling" to me means to sit down with your creator, your Bible and some quiet time and see what He reveals to you. The fear and trembling signifies how major important this process is. It is something to be reverenced and sought after above all else. For the most part, it should be free from outside influences and that would include books.

The "working out" part means that it is a changing process. We must be able to change our ideas and preconceptions as more is revealed to us from scripture. When we are faithful in little things, more will be given and I think that parallels the learning experience as well.

To say that "These are my beliefs and I am going to live by them for the rest of my life" signifies that the relationship with your creator has ended.

I also think this is why there are so many denominations in the world. God is leading each person down a slightly different path. The important thing is to keep walking down that path.

I could go on and write a little book on this subject but you get the idea.

Surfy
8thday
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Username: 8thday

Post Number: 596
Registered: 11-2007


Posted on Saturday, December 20, 2008 - 9:35 am:   Edit PostDelete PostPrint Post   Move Post (Moderator/Admin Only)

Welcome Freedom55! So glad you have joined up!

Thanks for the quotes Jeremy! I'm glad someone is ambitious to look them up and post them so I can print them!!! =) Adding to the file.
Sondra
Jackob
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Username: Jackob

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Posted on Saturday, December 20, 2008 - 10:37 am:   Edit PostDelete PostPrint Post   Move Post (Moderator/Admin Only)

Regarding Philippians 2:12,13, "working out our salvation with fear and trembling", Adventists are in good companies with Catholics in using this text in order to attack anybody who believes in assurance of salvation by faith alone. Below is an answer from an old-guy, a protestant who offered an intelligent answer.



quote:

Papists, however, pervert this passage so as to shake the assurance of faith, for the man that trembles is in uncertainty. They, accordingly, understand Paul’s words as if they meant that we ought, during our whole life, to waver as to assurance of salvation. If, however, we would not have Paul contradict himself, he does not by any means exhort us to hesitation, inasmuch as he everywhere recommends confidence and full assurance. The solution, however, is easy, if any one is desirous of attaining the true meaning without any spirit of contention. There are two kinds of fear; the one produces anxiety along with humility; the other hesitation. The former is opposed to fleshly confidence and carelessness, equally as to arrogance; the latter, to assurance of faith. Farther, we must take notice, that, as believers repose with assurance upon the grace of God, so, when they direct their views to their own frailty, they do not by any means resign themselves carelessly to sleep, but are by fear of dangers stirred up to prayer. Yet, so far is this fear from disturbing tranquillity of conscience, and shaking confidence, that it rather confirms it. For distrust of ourselves leads us to lean more confidently upon the mercy of God. And this is what Paul’s words import, for he requires nothing from the Philippians, but that they submit themselves to God with true self-renunciation.

Work out your own salvation. As Pelagians of old, so Papists at this day make a proud boast of this passage, with the view of extolling man’s excellence. Nay more, when the preceding statement is mentioned to them by way of objection, It is God that worketh in us, etc., they immediately by this shield ward it off (so to speak) — Work out your own salvation. Inasmuch, then, as the work is ascribed to God and man in common, they assign the half to each. In short, from the word work they derive free-will; from the term salvation they derive the merit of eternal life. I answer, that salvation is taken to mean the entire course of our calling, and that this term includes all things, by which God accomplishes that perfection, to which he has predestinated us by his gracious choice. This no one will deny, that is not obstinate and impudent. We are said to perfect it, when, under the regulation of the Spirit, we aspire after a life of blessedness. It is God that calls us, and offers to us salvation; it is our part to embrace by faith what he gives, and by obedience act suitably to his calling; but we have neither from ourselves. Hence we act only when he has prepared us for acting.




Hope that it helps!

Gabriel

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