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Colleentinker
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Username: Colleentinker

Post Number: 9163
Registered: 12-2003


Posted on Friday, December 19, 2008 - 3:54 pm:   Edit PostDelete PostPrint Post   Move Post (Moderator/Admin Only)

I was reading the E. G. White Notes for the Sabbath School Lessons for the new quarter. This next quarter's lessons are entitled, "The Prophetic Gift"--you can guess where it goes.

There is a companion volume of selected EGW quotes for each day of the quarter's lessons. In the notes for the first day, there is this quote from Conflict and Courage, page 20.

"There was to be co-operation between man and God. But this plan was greatly interfered with by Adam's transgression. Satan led him to sin, and the Lord would not communicate with him after he had sinned as he did when he was without sin.

"After the fall Christ became Adam's instructor. He acted in God's stead toward humanity, saving the race from immediate death. He took upon him the office of mediator. Adam and Eve were given a probation in which to return to their allegiance, and in this plan all their posterity were embraced.

"Without the atonement of the Son of God there could have been no communication of blessing or salvation from God to man. God was jealous for the honor of His law. The transgression of that law had caused a fearful separation between God and man. To Adam in his innocence was granted communion, direct, free and happy, with His Maker. After his transgression, God would communicate to man only through Christ and angels."

This is a blatant implication that Jesus is not identified with God Almighty. This quote is currently in the Sabbath School lesson EGW study notes. For Adventists to express indignation when we say they have a "different Jesus" is simply disingenuous.

They are CLEARLY providing this heresy for their members today. Adventism does NOT see or understand Jesus to be the Eternal God of the Bible. It seems Him as inferior, lesser, more innately related to angels and then exalted—as Ellen herself wrote.

They can use all the same words Christians use—but they do not mean the same things Christians mean. This is blatant deception.

To the public they say Jesus is God. To the members they say Christ communicated with humanity instead of God. It is heresy.

Colleen
Sparrow
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Username: Sparrow

Post Number: 24
Registered: 10-2008


Posted on Friday, December 19, 2008 - 5:40 pm:   Edit PostDelete PostPrint Post   Move Post (Moderator/Admin Only)

Thank you for helping me to see this for what it is...heresy.
Akweavers
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Username: Akweavers

Post Number: 81
Registered: 8-2008
Posted on Friday, December 19, 2008 - 6:42 pm:   Edit PostDelete PostPrint Post   Move Post (Moderator/Admin Only)

I am tired of SDA's holier than thou attitudes. They think everyone but themselves are hell bound and anyone that leaves is lost. They don't even know who or what Jesus really is or really did. For them to think so highly of themselves and their Bible knowledge is laughable. I never knew what a Christian really was until I got out of the Temple of Ellen aka SDA and associated with the "heathens" that worship on Sunday. Now I see how foolish the SDA are to think all these wonderful Christians are going to hunt them down and kill them for not going to church on Sunday. I think the opposite would be more apt to happen if anything LOL.
Bskillet
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Username: Bskillet

Post Number: 91
Registered: 8-2008
Posted on Friday, December 19, 2008 - 7:00 pm:   Edit PostDelete PostPrint Post   Move Post (Moderator/Admin Only)

SDA-ism is on a course to return to its historical Arian roots. The leadership is pushing people back to EGW. The next step is to accept that Jesus had a sin nature. After then, to accept that He was not eternally pre-existant...

(Message edited by bskillet on December 19, 2008)
Jeremy
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Username: Jeremy

Post Number: 2552
Registered: 10-2004


Posted on Friday, December 19, 2008 - 8:57 pm:   Edit PostDelete PostPrint Post   Move Post (Moderator/Admin Only)

Colleen, astounding! I just recently got finished adding stuff to my website from the current quarter's quarterly ("Atonement and the Cross of Christ"), exposing all of the anti-Trinitarian heresy in there (and there was...lots...of it, to be sure!).

I'm definitely going to add that EGW quote to my EGW section.

Wow.

Thanks for sharing it.

Adventism absolutely does not believe that Jesus is God. You should see the stuff I've had to read through tonight, in preparing my website...! Yikes, is all I can say. It even included the SDA "version" of Christmas: Jesus came as a weak, powerless, helpless baby at a great "fearful risk" and Satan was very powerful and had a great opportunity to destroy Him, the battle was tilted in Satan's favor...etc...etc...puke and repeat...



Jeremy
Jeremy
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Username: Jeremy

Post Number: 2553
Registered: 10-2004


Posted on Friday, December 19, 2008 - 9:05 pm:   Edit PostDelete PostPrint Post   Move Post (Moderator/Admin Only)

Oh yeah, I forgot to mention that the article I talked about above repeatedly uses a capital "H" for his and him when referring to Satan, but used a lower case "s" for "God's son"!

Jeremy

(Message edited by Jeremy on December 19, 2008)
Jorgfe
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Username: Jorgfe

Post Number: 1445
Registered: 11-2005
Posted on Friday, December 19, 2008 - 9:47 pm:   Edit PostDelete PostPrint Post   Move Post (Moderator/Admin Only)

Jeremy, what is the URL for your website?

Gilbert
Jeremy
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Username: Jeremy

Post Number: 2554
Registered: 10-2004


Posted on Friday, December 19, 2008 - 10:04 pm:   Edit PostDelete PostPrint Post   Move Post (Moderator/Admin Only)

Hi Gilbert,

It's not completed yet, but should be within the next month or two, hopefully. I'll announce it on here when it's ready to launch.

Jeremy
Joyfulheart
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Username: Joyfulheart

Post Number: 392
Registered: 10-2006
Posted on Saturday, December 20, 2008 - 6:39 am:   Edit PostDelete PostPrint Post   Move Post (Moderator/Admin Only)

Hi Jeremy,

Did the quarterly on the atonement teach that the atonement began in 1844 when Jesus entered the most holy place or at the cross?

I've been wondering what exactly they're teaching now. Did they just muddy everything up some more? I'm just curious. I was kind of hoping this quarterly would bring out all the people writing responses like the 1844 and the judgment one did.

I can't wait to see your web site!

Colleen, thank you for those quotes! Conflict and Courage is a book I had never even heard of! How I pray that this stuff will be brought out into the open and discussed. May many SDA's see the heresy and begin to question the things the church is teaching.
Jonvil
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Username: Jonvil

Post Number: 256
Registered: 4-2007
Posted on Saturday, December 20, 2008 - 7:34 am:   Edit PostDelete PostPrint Post   Move Post (Moderator/Admin Only)

Nothing new but - after reading these posts this came to mind:

Because spiritual things are spiritually discerned, Adventists (who find the concept of the Trinity to be incomprehensible - each being equally God) rely on their SoP for discernment. She has reinterpreted the Trinity by placing each member of the trinity in their own separate box to be dealt with individually rather than as a whole. Rather than perfect unity, we have the angry Father placated by the second tier (not fully God) loving Son and the Holy Spirit not God at all, but a manifestation of the Father’s power. From this springs ‘I must be perfect’ in order to receive the angry God’s approval, and I can be perfect (a partnership, with God supplying just a little help) because Jesus showed us how by His (human) example. Because ‘dead in sins’ doesn’t really mean dead but means we sin by choice not by nature, and since we sin by choice, we can simply choose to not sin, just like Jesus did. God’s grace (and WHY would an angry God extend grace at those He is angry with), a completed atonement and The Holy Spirit are not required. Thank you Ellen.

I predict this new quarterly will ignore Ellen’s many egregious ‘I was shown” and will cherry pick quotes that will appear to be in line with mainstream Christianity, while emphasizing that the ‘Prophet’ is proof that the SDAC is God’s true remnant church.

I think I’m going to hold my nose and study this abomination just for the opportunity to find her quotes that contradict whatever point they’re trying to make, then present them to my wife. Is divorce eminent?

John Douglas
Surfy
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Username: Surfy

Post Number: 452
Registered: 11-2007
Posted on Saturday, December 20, 2008 - 8:35 am:   Edit PostDelete PostPrint Post   Move Post (Moderator/Admin Only)

After his transgression, God would communicate to man only through Christ and angels."
__________________________________________

Then who was it that communicated with Moses, Samuel and Saul...just to name a few?

Surfy
8thday
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Username: 8thday

Post Number: 601
Registered: 11-2007


Posted on Saturday, December 20, 2008 - 10:20 am:   Edit PostDelete PostPrint Post   Move Post (Moderator/Admin Only)

I'm sure if I used this to confront an SDA and tried to show them the problem here, they would say, "That's not what she was saying! It doesn't mean that!"

I see in that whole perspective that not only is Jesus a lesser god - but he is also placed lower than the law itself, being the means to the end of restoring perfect obedience. He is not the goal, the final answer, the all in all, but just the means to another higher end. This is echoed in the antichrist teachings of other modern law movements that lead people to deny Christ. I'm continually amazed at the same undercurrent.

Someone on here (forgive me for not remembering who) recently said it really well that the law points to Christ, but in adventsim, Jesus is there only to point to the law.

Jeremy, I CANNOT believe any writer would refer to satan's pronoun with a capital letter. he is so strong in their theology, it makes sense. Even at the beginning of a sentence, I think I'll leave it off - per Surfy's suggestion. =)
Gcfrankie
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Username: Gcfrankie

Post Number: 276
Registered: 1-2007
Posted on Saturday, December 20, 2008 - 10:34 am:   Edit PostDelete PostPrint Post   Move Post (Moderator/Admin Only)

What is this: God is jealous for the honor of his law? Where does man fit into this equation?
Well I guess they will teach anything just to keep the 10c's and people under them (the law of death).
I cannot find the verse where it says, Lord we taught about you and Jesus replied I do not know you. I am sure glad to be out of that false teaching.
I praise God everyday for bringing me out!
Gail
Asurprise
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Username: Asurprise

Post Number: 574
Registered: 7-2007
Posted on Saturday, December 20, 2008 - 12:49 pm:   Edit PostDelete PostPrint Post   Move Post (Moderator/Admin Only)

Gail, the verse you were looking for is Matt. 7:22,23 :-)

When I was an Adventist, a friend (whom the Lord eventually used to bring me out of Adventism) kept printing off things about Adventism that she found on the internet. I wasn't interested in reading them, because I thought I already had the truth; but she pleaded so much that I finally relented. I stipulated that I would read only until I found something that claimed Adventists believed something that they really didn't - or something that I thought was exaggerated.

Anyway, I started reading this one article that said that Ellen White said that Jesus wasn't "Almighty God." Ahaa! I thought to myself. The next time I went to church, I went into the church library and looked up the quote. Sure enough, Ellen White DID say that! Puzzled, I continued reading and then I saw where she said that Jesus was "Mighty God." AHAA!!!! I thought again. She DID say that He's God! I was mildly puzzled as to why Ellen White would say that Jesus wasn't "Almighty God," but would say that He is "Mighty God," but I didn't let that trouble me too much. The next time I saw my friend, I let her know that her article had exaggerated.

Later, I DID learn that Ellen White was a false prophet, mainly because she says that Jesus DID NOT go into the Most Holy Place until 1844. ("Early Writings", chapter "The Open and the Shut Door," 1st paragraph) The book of Hebrews in the Bible says He went there right away. (Heb. 6:19,20; Heb. 9:12,25 & Heb. 10:12) Adventists try to explain this away by saying that that represents two separate ministries by Jesus, but Ellen White is really plain in what she says, saying that Jesus DID NOT go into the Most Holy Place until 1844. Also the entire "investigative judgment" is based on Ellen White and also contradicts the Bible in lots of places.

Later on after I had left the Adventist church, I came upon a quote of Ellen White's that really surprised me. I went down to the Adventist Book Center and bought the book, just to be able to show Adventists. It's called "Spirit of Prophecy, volume 1." The quote is found in the first chapter (on page 17 in my book), in the second paragraph. It says that God the Father gathered all the angels around so He could "confer special honor upon his Son." Ellen then goes on to say: "The Father then made known that it was ordained by himself that Christ, his Son, should be equal with himself..."

It kind of sets my teeth on edge to not capitalize pronouns referring to God, but I wanted to quote it the way she wrote it. She goes on to say that Satan's "heart was filled with envy and hatred." She continues on about how Satan couldn't understand why Jesus should be honored before himself.
Jody
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Username: Jody

Post Number: 64
Registered: 7-2007
Posted on Sunday, December 28, 2008 - 7:09 pm:   Edit PostDelete PostPrint Post   Move Post (Moderator/Admin Only)

Jeremy, I am looking forward to seeing this new website of yours.I think i will try to get a copy of the latest sabbath school quarterly so i can see first hand the errors being taught.So many SDA's think that the errors were only in early Adventism and that the error is no longer being taught.
I cant believe that people wont open their eyes and see they are in a cult.I guess only the Holy Spirit himself can remove the veil.I continue to pray for a miracle similar to the one that happened in the World Wide Church of God.

Jeremy when u have ur website ready what will the name of it be? I dont want to miss it.
Jeremy
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Username: Jeremy

Post Number: 2566
Registered: 10-2004


Posted on Sunday, December 28, 2008 - 9:45 pm:   Edit PostDelete PostPrint Post   Move Post (Moderator/Admin Only)

Hi Joyfulheart,

You asked:


quote:

Did the quarterly on the atonement teach that the atonement began in 1844 when Jesus entered the most holy place or at the cross?

I've been wondering what exactly they're teaching now. Did they just muddy everything up some more? I'm just curious. I was kind of hoping this quarterly would bring out all the people writing responses like the 1844 and the judgment one did.




I didn't read the whole thing, but I think they taught their standard stuff about their being "an" atonement on the Cross (using their own definition of "atonement" for that, of course), and then teaching the 1844/IJ/satan as scapegoat garbage...

The Collegiate Quarterly especially spent a lot of time focusing on satan's supposed role as the scapegoat--totally teaching that he is the ultimate savior/sin bearer, and putting him as an equal to Christ and talking about all the things that Christ and satan supposedly share in common!!! It totally made me want to puke.

Jeremy

(Message edited by Jeremy on December 28, 2008)
Jeremy
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Username: Jeremy

Post Number: 2567
Registered: 10-2004


Posted on Sunday, December 28, 2008 - 9:47 pm:   Edit PostDelete PostPrint Post   Move Post (Moderator/Admin Only)

Jody,

I don't know for sure what the name will be, but I'll try to make a new thread about it here on the forum when it's ready to launch.

Jeremy

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