| Author |
Message |
Sherry2
| | Posted on Saturday, July 15, 2000 - 9:39 am: |     |
Something really struck me this morning. It seems in Adventism, we were told Satan's lie was that we could not keep God's law...it was too hard. I'm not sure how that got adopted. But the Bible states that he wanted to ascend above God, he wanted first place. He thought he could run the show better. And in the garden of Eden, the temptation was about "you shall be as God" - again tempting Eve with the idea that she could be more, do more than God. Self-sufficiency. SDAism says that Satan says we couldn't keep the law, God sent Jesus His son who kept His law fully, therefore proving Satan wrong, so now we must keep the law, but we can't - the Bible says so, we realize that is through Jesus that we can keep the law, therefore if I'm not doing things perfectly, falling into any sort-of sin I must not be following Jesus close enough. So I must work harder on aligning my will with His. And there is the self-sufficiency deception again, clothed in religious garb. I succered to that philosophy for years. I also suffered tremendous guilt and suicidalness on a regular basis. I thank God that I am free in Him today. I do not have guilt chasing me everywhere I go. I know that I am made righteous by His precious blood. I will never be worthy of such a great love, but I am loved by the God of the Universe. And I can follow Him and obey His commands, and if I fail, lose my temper, or otherwise "sin", I praise Him that that sin was already cleansed on the cross, and I can confess it to Him, and move on in continuing victory through and only through Him. He is in control. He keeps me blameless before the throne of God by His blood, not my efforts. |
George
| | Posted on Saturday, July 15, 2000 - 8:14 pm: | |
Susan,
Isn't it something to look back on our childhood with the eyes on an adult! We can see what we were thinking and what made us think that way. Some of the decissions we made were so profound I don't know how we were able to make them at that stage in life.
Sometimes I don't get to read as much on there as I would like,and at other times I just forget where I was if it has been a few days. I think I have read all of your answers to me, and have just looked back to see which one it was but I can't find the one you mentioned. If you can find it I would be glad to comment. My days off have changed so it will be Wednesday before I can get much time here, but I will keep checking this thread.
Talk to you later---George |
Patti
| | Posted on Sunday, July 16, 2000 - 1:44 am: | |
Hi, Sherry2!
You are right. The claim that Satan's deception was not that God's law could not be kept. That is yet another Ellenism (or whomever..)
As for your other question:
I wrote a classroom music reading program for choirs (4 volumes) that I self-publish and sell.
I have to hit as many summer conventions as I can since it is my livelihood now.
(I am in Oklahoma City now)
Thanks for asking! |
Ritchie
| | Posted on Sunday, July 16, 2000 - 2:30 pm: | |
Hi, Sherry2!
My wife and I were just discussing this very same topic on the 'great controversy' according to EGW. As long as you think within the boundaries of SDAism everything seems to fit. BUT once you introduce the idea of grace it simply falls apart. We relate to what you say about the guilt and the frustration trying to 'measure up', even with God's help.
I remember visiting an SDA educational institution (which shall remain anonymous). I was asked to speak to the student body (incidentally, the topic I chose was on grace!). The very first thing that grabbed my attention as I entered the school grounds were the ten commandments on two large slabs of concrete -- this is right at the entrance of the college. Get the picture? The SDA church in reality is Law-centered and not Grace-centered. Sad but true.
Now that the truth about the book The Great Controversy is out (large portions having been copied from writers such as Milton, Smith, and even James White) it is not difficult to eradicate such teachings and dwell on nothing else but God's Word.
Patti, I noticed you mentioned something about music. Are you a musician by vocation? Just curious. |
Breezy
| | Posted on Sunday, July 16, 2000 - 2:33 pm: | |
I bet Patti got all that musical talent from her mom, if I read the story correctly. |
Patti
| | Posted on Sunday, July 16, 2000 - 3:48 pm: | |
Ritchie,
Yes, I am a music educator.
I don't know about "talent," Breezy, but, yes, we grew up in a musical home. For that I am ever grateful. |
Colleentinker
| | Posted on Sunday, July 16, 2000 - 9:19 pm: | |
Ritchie, you're absolutely right. We can discuss "not being able to keep the law", etc. within the framework of Adventism, but when we introduce grace, everything looks different. We're in a new paradigm!
Praise God!
Colleen |
Ritchie
| | Posted on Sunday, July 16, 2000 - 10:00 pm: | |
To Colleentinker and others;
'Just thought I'd ask your prayers: I'm meeting with an old buddy tomorrow whom I've known since college. He still attends an SDA church and does not have a clue of the 'paradigm shift' I've been through. He and I used to attend the same church and attempted to introduce grace through the young adult group with very little success. We've also attended Rick Warren's church growth seminars together. I am praying that he will come to see the reality behind the SDA system of beliefs in a way that will bring him up to an even higher level in his spiritual journey.
One thing my wife and I have decided is NOT to share the truth (and un-truth) about about the church unless we were sure that the individual was grounded in Christ's righteousness and His grace. We feel that doing otherwise would breed resentment and lots of misunderstanding. It would accomplish nothing favorable.
To Patti;
I, too, am a musician by trade. I work from home at the moment and plan to resume concertizing soon. |
Cindy
| | Posted on Monday, July 17, 2000 - 4:53 am: | |
Ritchie,
Hi! I've been thinking about what you wrote above,
"One thing my wife and I have decided is NOT to share the truth (and un-truth) about about the church unless we were sure that the individual was grounded in Christ's righteousness and His grace. We feel that doing otherwise would breed resentment and lots of misunderstanding. It would accomplish nothing favorable."
From my experience, this has become clearer to me more and more. If one doesn't understand and have as a BASIS, for any belief, the Rightousness of CHRIST ALONE, then discusssing issues does breed resentment and misunderstanding!
And if the Free Grace of the Gospel is not CENTRAL to them, even if they see the untruths of S.D.A.ism they do not have anything to hang onto except their bitterness towards being duped!
They must see JESUS as being Totally Sufficient for their salvation and supreme in their life to have their eyes opened to the Holy Spirit's gradual leading. If not, the tendancy is to throw off all Christianity--or else get involved with some other group that purports to be the one true remnant.
Jesus alone is all the Remnant we need!
Grace always,
Cindy |
Patti
| | Posted on Monday, July 17, 2000 - 5:04 am: | |
AMEN, Cindy!
Make that two AMENs!!! |
Cindy
| | Posted on Monday, July 17, 2000 - 6:03 am: | |
Patti, Hi!
Hope you're having a fun and successful 'road trip'!! I think I'd like to be out traveling the country, too!
Grace alone always,
Cindy |
Colleentinker
| | Posted on Monday, July 17, 2000 - 4:30 pm: | |
Amen from me, too! Let us know how your talk with your friend went, Ritchie!
Colleen |
Patti
| | Posted on Monday, July 17, 2000 - 5:50 pm: | |
Ritchie,
Tell me about your musicianship!
Cindy,
Traveling on the road is fun for about the first 2 days. :) I have 5 conventions left. And then I will be little Suzie Homemaker again.
My love to all of you!
Patti |
Ritchie
| | Posted on Tuesday, July 18, 2000 - 1:22 am: | |
Hi, Patti!
I put on Christian concerts as a keyboard artist (have since 1985) performing solo on a very sophisticated synthesizer. The novelty of my 'act' is the fact that I play every single note of music live as opposed to pressing a "play" button and playing along with some preprogrammed track. I also produce and record CD albums in the digital format. My travels have taken me all over North America as well as Bermuda, Russia, Asia and Hawaii. My presentation have taken on a distinct grace orientation as of 1991 when I stumbled across the 1888 issue. |
Steve
| | Posted on Tuesday, July 18, 2000 - 4:50 pm: | |
Let me throw my "Amen" in with the rest of you. What Cindy wrote is very insightful.
Years ago, I heard Walter Martin speak about witnessing to those in cults. He used the analogy of a heart surgeon. He said that if you don't have a healthy heart to put in someone's chest after you've surgically removed the diseased heart, then removing the diseased heart will do no good.
We must remember, when someone is not wanting the surgery, or is not willing to accept the new heart in place of the diseased heart, we really must be careful when doing that kind of spiritual surgery.
Steve |
Cindy
| | Posted on Tuesday, July 18, 2000 - 8:58 pm: | |
Steve, that is a good way of putting it. And it is a spiritual surgery, isn't it? I always love how the New Covenant of Christ is described in 'heart' language...
"I will give them an UNDIVIDED HEART and put a new spirit in them; I will remove from them their HEART OF STONE and give them a HEART OF FLESH. Then they will follow my decrees and be careful to keep my laws. They will be my people, and I will be their God." Ezekiel 11:19&20 NIV.
"I will give you a NEW HEART and put a new spirit in you; I will remove from you your HEART OF STONE and give you a HEART OF FLESH..." Ezekiel 36:26 NIV.
I love how the heart of stone seems to relate to the Ten Commandments written on stone tablets. And the heart of flesh corresponds to the True circumcision, "the circumcision of the heart, by the Spirit, not by the written code..." Romans 3:29 NIV
And also from Jeremiah 31 and Hebrews 8:
"The time is coming, declares the Lord, when I will make a NEW covenant with the house of Israel and with the house of Judah. It will NOT be like the covenant I made with their forefathers when I took them by the hand to lead them out of Egypt, because they did not remain faithful to my covenant, and I turned away from them, declares the Lord."
"This is the covenant I will make with the house of Israel after that time, declares the Lord. I will put my laws in their minds and WRITE THEM ON THEIR HEARTS. I will be their God and they will be my people. No longer will a man teach his neighbor, or a man his brother, saying, 'Know the Lord,' because they will all know me, from the least of them to the greatest. for I will forgive their wickedness and will remember their sins no more."
"By calling this covenant 'NEW,' he has made the first one obsolete, and what is obsolete and aging will soon disappear."
Great promises!...to be given this new heart, an undivided heart, so we can worship God in Spirit and in Truth!
Grace always,
Cindy |
Chyna
| | Posted on Friday, July 21, 2000 - 12:55 pm: | |
this comment by Sherry rang a familiar note in my head about an e-mail my former boyfriend to me about making his will and God's will being the same I hadn't realized then that it was 'work' he was talking about
>So I must work harder on aligning my will with His.
again, I want to thank all of you for your insights. hopefully, things will work out between me and Andy that we'll be able to study the Bible together (even though we're not dating anymore) one topic I already have set up for us to talk about is hell. and now I see that a good Bible study would be on grace and salvation.
love in Him,
Chyna |
Patti
| | Posted on Monday, August 07, 2000 - 7:55 pm: | |
Hi, Ritchie!
Hope you are still around!
Really neat stuff you are doing musically! I am stuck in music education (boring!) Well, not really boring, but not as exciting as performing!
And spreading the Gospel while you are at it! May God bless your work!
Patti |
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