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Hrobinsonw
Registered user
Username: Hrobinsonw
Post Number: 19
Registered: 7-2004
| | Posted on Wednesday, August 11, 2004 - 12:22 pm: |     |
This is not an attempt to spread disdain across the surface of the SDA base. But this is just down right ridiculous. I was talking to some SDA children and they were so sad. I asked what was wrong. Their reply to me was, "it is bad enough that last year we had to go to different schools than most kids. But this year my dad decided to pull us out of our private school, take his days off and home school us himself." Mind you that their father doesn't have not one degree nor teacher certification. There are many aspects that go into educating a small child in order to give them the neccessary educational building blocks to advance at a collegiate level when the time comes. I questioned their father and he told me that he would teach his children everything that they need to know. How does he expect for them to get a diploma and pursue lasting careers so that they can be productive adults? That is crazy. I had issues with private schooling, but home schooling is even worse in my opinion. |
Pheeki
Registered user
Username: Pheeki
Post Number: 384
Registered: 1-2003
| | Posted on Wednesday, August 11, 2004 - 12:32 pm: | |
My niece and nephew have never set foot in a school...and now that they are teens, their mother has gone back to work and they are expected to home school themselves using a computer program. And they are sad too, and they don't know how to interact with other kids.
My other nieces and nephews are having trouble of a different kind. To avoid the govt. keeping tabs on them, they were birthed at home. My sister-in-law refused to fill out birth certificates or ss applications and now they are academy and college age and want to work and drive and get student aid and guess what???? There is no proof they are US citizens or were ever born. One niece worked all year as a custodian at academy and they can't pay her becuase she doesn't have a ss# yet! All this because of fear of the time of trouble and mark of the beast. |
Ladylittle
Registered user
Username: Ladylittle
Post Number: 43
Registered: 4-2004
| | Posted on Wednesday, August 11, 2004 - 1:23 pm: | |
 I think homeschool can be a good thing IF the parents are prepared and capable, and both parents and children have a network of supportive people involved. It can be geared more specifically to each child's strengths and weaknesses, and can allow the child to blossem more fully than if the child is required to 'keep up' or be 'held back' with the class.
HOWEVER, homeschooling to keep kids isolated from "whatever" is not healthy. Homeschooling because "the rest of the world is just too evil and we (the parents) are the ultimate authority on what you need to learn" is downright dangerous to kids.
From my own experience there are parents who SHOULD NOT homeschool, and there are parents who do a good job of homeschooling. There are kids that do better with the individualized attention, and there are kids that do better in tightly structured classrooms, or other forms of education.
Homeschooling is not restricted to Adventists. There are many people who do it both inside of Adventism and for many different reasons. In my opinion, the reasons for doing it and the ability to carry it through have a lot do to with whether it is a good thing or not.
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Colleentinker
Registered user
Username: Colleentinker
Post Number: 551
Registered: 12-2003
| | Posted on Wednesday, August 11, 2004 - 3:18 pm: | |
I agree, Ladylittle. I've seen homeschoolers who do a great job, and the kids do well--sometimes better. On the other hand, I've seen the COMPLETE opposite. I've taught kids who came out of home schools from both ends of the spectrum.
Some parents are well-equipped to homeschool, some aren't. Just because they THINK they are doesn't make it so! Another factor I believe is a huge concern is the personalities of the kids themselves. Some kids really are wired to be responsive and responsible, and some do much better with the individualized attention.
Some, though, NEED someone beside Mom and Dad to be authorities in their lives. I have a friend with two very bright, talented daughters, ages five and nearly 3. She freely says if both girls were like the elder, homeschool would work well. The younger, though, is strong-willed, opinionated, and wants things HER way. She is actually quite well-behaved, but she's a handful. Her mom says homeschool would never work with her, and I can understand.
Our boys are both quiet, cerebral types, but homeschool would NEVER have worked because they both have passive-aggressive streaks toward whatever they do not like. They have needed other authority figures in their lives besides us holding them accountable in many different venues. They both had to learn it's not just their annoying parents who make demands on them and have expectations for them!
Homeschooling for the sake of control, in my opinion, is usually a bad idea. The whole issue, though, is so dependent upon the temperaments and commitment of both parents and kids as well as the preparation of the parents and their wllingness to network. It's one of those things that can be really good or really bad!
Colleen |
Leigh
Registered user
Username: Leigh
Post Number: 100
Registered: 2-2003
| | Posted on Wednesday, August 11, 2004 - 5:41 pm: | |
Okay, I have to get up on my soap box now.
For most of the parents that I know who homeschool (non Adventist Christians), it is a call from the Lord. Not everyone has that call, just like not everyone is called to be a nurse, a doctor, an engineer, or a NFL football head coach(In my opinion, I believe Joe Gibbs was called!). The non denominational church that we attend has a large homeschooling population. They also have a private Christian school which has opened its doors to homeschoolers for music classes, computer classes, PE, Spanish, dance, and others. They have families who have kids in public school. They have families who have had some kids at home, one in public, one in private depending on the need of the child. Their motto is whatever the Lord calls you to do, do it and we will support you.
Now for my story. When my older daughter was going to kindergarten, I was debating on where to send her for school. The closest sda school was too far away. I wasnít sure if I could afford it anyway. I wasnít sure if I wanted to send her to public school. ( She is very bright and was reading 4th grade level in first grade, not because of anything I did, thatís just how she was fashioned by the Creator) I didnít want her to be bored.
I was getting the impression that I should homeschool. I DIDNíT WANT TO!!!! For almost a year I had these strong impressions to homeschool, but as I said before I DIDNíT WANT TO!!!! I kept arguing with the Lord. ì I donít want to, I canít, I would go crazy!!î Finally I prayed ìLord if this is what you want me to do, you have to make me want to do it.î I thought now this will be easy. I definitely donít want to so I guess thatís that. Several months later I was talking with one of the other kindergarten moms. She asked what we were going to do for first grade (the school my daughter was going to was just preschool to Kindergarten). I said I wasnít sure, but I was thinking of homeschooling. All sorts of positive homeschool talk came out of my mouth. When I finished talking, I realized that I wanted to homeschool. God changed my will!. (I still have ìI DIDNíT WANT TO!!!!î days.)
The summer of 1999, I picked up all of the supplies to start school in about 3 week. We were going to be using the Adventist homeschool curriculum. The next week, I called my husband at work to ask him how is visit to the doctor was. He said,
îWeíll talk about it when I get home.î
I said, ìTell me now.î
He said, ìThey think itís probably CANCER.î
The rug was pulled out from under me. Our girls were 3 and 6. He was only 33 at the time. 2 weeks later, we got the diagnosis the day before our anniversary. Cancer.
I KNEW that the Lord had called me to do this. But I was scared. Homeschooling kept my mind off worrying about everything. He ended up having chemotherapy over Thanksgiving , Christmas, and into January . There were several times when his white blood cell count dropped so, so low, and we really had to worry about infection. I was so glad at that time that my daughter wasnít going to school and bringing home lots of germs. In March of 2000, we got the best news, COMPLETE REMISSION. He has been fine since.
During this time of homeschooling and using the sda curriculum, I was able to see things that troubled me. The legalism and the unbiblical accounts of things. I may have told you all of the test that asked my daughter what the blessings of keeping the 10 commandments were. She answered ìgoing to heaven.î I was upset with myself. I told her we are saved by Jesus dying for us. I thought I taught her grace. We sent the test in and when I got the corrected test back I was even more upset. She got the answer right!!
Homeschooling was one of the ways that the Lord led me out of Adventism.
Last year, the girls started attending a classical Christian tutorial. They meet 2 days a week for 4 hours each day. They are tutored in History, Latin, English Grammar and Composition, and Science. This year, they asked me to tutor the 3rd grade history class.
Again, I had the same arguments I had before, I DONíT WANT TO!!!! I CANíT!!!
I realized that if the Lord wanted me to do this it would be his strength, not mine, so I agreed. (thatís why I havenít been posting very much, Iíve been immersed in Ancient Greece, the Trojan war, Greek and Roman mythology, stuff I never studied at sda schools!!)
It wasnít until just a week ago that I came to see one of the blessings that the Lord had in store for me. While studying up for this class (we will be covering Ancient Greece, Ancient Rome, and the New Testament), I was learning about Alexander the Great and his conquests. I was learning about the 4 generals that took over when he died in his early 30ís of probably a mosquito bite. I learned of ANTIOCHUS EPIPHANES. I learned of the Maccabeean (spelling??)revolt. I may have read about this in my studying out of Adventism, but most of the articles were theologically over my head. Now, Daniel 8 makes even more sense. Now the 2300 evening and morning prophecy makes sense. I have something to share with my searching and wondering Adventist friends and family. If you what to know more about Antiochus epiphanes, put into the search box antiochus epiphanes daniel 8
Please donít lump all homeschoolers in one category. There are those who are obeying the direction of the Lord. Yes, there are those who are probably disobeying the Lord and using homeschooling for control, isolation, what ever.
Yes, today I was having one of those "I DON'T WANT TO!!!!" days. When I read the topic and started writing, I was given strength to carry on. I donít know how long Iíll continue homeschool. I will just keep listening for my instructions.
Thatís all. Iíll hop down. Sorry for the length of this post.
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Susan_2
Registered user
Username: Susan_2
Post Number: 827
Registered: 11-2002
| | Posted on Wednesday, August 11, 2004 - 6:24 pm: | |
O.K., Since I have personal experience in this I guess I should get in my two-cents worth. I home schooled one of my sons during forth grade. It was the best and most wonderful and positive school year he ever had. I had a lot of fun, too. I loved homeschooling and I don't believe a teacher (i.e.:parent) has to have mastered a subject in order to teach it. Me and my son did a lot of our learning together. We joined a group of homeschooling families. Every two weeks our group of around 20 families (that made for a lot of kids) had a fiedltrip. We'd meet at the roller rink, at the zoo, at the children's museum, etc. One family had a huge home with an awsome big pool in the backyard and she's have us over for swim parties and bbq's. It was wonderful. Pheeki, I have a friend who is fullblown Hippie. Him and his family own their own land and are nearly 100% self-sufficient. They have a four year old son. The kid was born outside and upon his birth the Hippies broke out with a drumming ceremony, a big party that finily months later faded away. The little boy has no birth cirtificate and no ss#. The father said since he doesn't need to claim the child for tax reasons and he's not going to apply for welfare for his son and his child will be taught everything he needs to know for survival then the child does not need any of those documents. I do wonder though what will happen to this little boy when he gets old enuf to be courious about life further than his own compound. The few times the child has needed medical care the father has taken the kid to emergency, given a false name, etc., gotten the treetment and medicine needed and left. Unfortunatelly the child has yet to see an indoor living facility (they live outdoors under tarps-really huge tarps) or use a flush toilet. He does have a pair of shorts that he wears if he is in regular society with his dad but mostly he is growing up naked. He does not talk. He makes sounds and points. I'm sure his i.q. is normal. His upbringing is anything but normal. He's never had meat, white sugar, white flour, artifical color or flavorings or dairy and I think he has only been raised on raw fruit mostly with a few raw vegetables. He's a Tarzan baby only he is a real little boy growing up right now. Just like sda's hippies range from one extreme to the other. |
Grace_g
Registered user
Username: Grace_g
Post Number: 24
Registered: 7-2004
| | Posted on Wednesday, August 11, 2004 - 9:09 pm: | |
My husband and I sometimes that joke that he was raised Adventist without all the trappings. He's fully non-denominational Christian, but when he was growing up his Mother went through a big anti-sugar phase and really went healthy. But for the different denomination, his family exhibits many of the same traits as some Adventists: health conscious, suspicious of government; etc. One sibling moved his whole family in the middle of nowhere and they live on 70 acres of land. There are 6 kids, and they all have been home-schooled. None of them had Social Security numbers growing up [although now the oldest has a job, so that may have changed].
As for home-schooling, almost all of our neices and nephews have been home-schooled at one point or the other, to varying degrees of success. One niece just graduated w/her masters. One nephew can barely read. Like most things, it all depends on the care and quality that children receive. They can receive just as poor schooling within classroom walls.
That being said, homeschooling has been an attractive idea to me. My husband and I both have degrees in education. (Although that doesn't necessarily success either!). But because of the varying degrees of success with his nieces and nephews, and the feeling of isolation he had growing up, he says, absolutely not.
My husband and I were both bookish nerds growing up. Because I went to SDA schools, I have a finely honed sense of cliques and how to operate within them, which has given me a pretty good social edge as an adult. He doesn't. Our secret hope is that our child will grow up outgoing and popular, and escape her social genes. ;)
Grace |
Leigh
Registered user
Username: Leigh
Post Number: 101
Registered: 2-2003
| | Posted on Thursday, August 12, 2004 - 7:09 am: | |
Susan, like you, my children and I have learned things together and we are involved in activities that make them far from being isolated. In fact we just got back from those forbidden tennis lessons!
In certain sda churches and sda communities, homeschooling is not looked upon very favorably because the homeschooling families aren't supporting sda schools.
Grace, for an interesting perspective on homeschooling, check out the book "The Well Trained Mind" by Jesse Wise and Susan Wise Bauer. I know this book is available in the public library where we live. Susan Wise Bauer is a professor at the College of William and Mary in Williamsburg, VA. |
Colleentinker
Registered user
Username: Colleentinker
Post Number: 554
Registered: 12-2003
| | Posted on Thursday, August 12, 2004 - 3:48 pm: | |
Leigh, your story is so encouraging. God completely leads us when we want to serve Him. You are an example of the kind of homeschooler that I truly admire. Two of my most memorable students of all time were a brother and sister who came into the 9th and tenth grades out of a homeschooling situation. They were widely read and very bright, and the girl was an astonishingly good writer. Both were very good thinkers and able to evaluate, critique, etc. In addition, they were competitive ice skaters; the boy competed in the US nationals a few years ago.
I agree with you, though; homeschooling must be a call of God. I really believe that is the secret to knowing whether or not one should do it. It truly is not for everyone; for those whom God calls to it, it is a wonderful thing.
Colleen |
Dane
Registered user
Username: Dane
Post Number: 24
Registered: 4-2004
| | Posted on Saturday, August 14, 2004 - 4:41 am: | |
Like several of you, I have observed both positivie and negative outcomes from homeschooling. I have a relative that homeschooled both of his children and it was a disaster. The kids really didn't learn anything. On the other hand I know some families who have had great success. I think success or failure depends both upon the personalities of the kids and the commitment level of the parents.
Our youngest daughter is now 18 and will be a senior this fall. When she was a freshman she started losing interest in her high school classes. After long talks and investigation it became apparent that she was bored to tears. She has always been quite focused on whatever she is trying to learn and therefore achieves mastery faster than the average student. She started talking to us about homeschooling. We investigated it thoroughly and the short of it is that we pulled her out of high school at the end of the first semester of her sophomore year.
We have been able to help her go farther and faster than her former classmates. This summer she took two accelerated classes at Taylor University(local Christian University) and did OK. She will be taking two college courses each semester this year in addtion to finishing her senior requirements. This is one of those "credits in escrow" programs that many colleges have created for high shcool juniors and seniors. The classes are real college courses.
My goodness, this sounds like I'm bragging. What I'm really trying to do is explain how things have worked for us and why.
My wife and I have always emphasized education to our kids. We read to them for a minimum of 1/2 hour a day from the time they were infants until the last one was in about the 4th grade. It was a great way to have family time.
Furthermore we are both educators. My wife taught elementary for several years prior to our marriage. I have a Master's in Education and have taught at the middle school, high school, and now college level.
If we did not have this background we probably would not have taken our daughter out of school. Even so, it was a major decision.
Several major studies have been done of the one to two million homeschooed children in the U.S. In general the outcomes are positive but it is not for everyone.
Dane
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Praisegod
Registered user
Username: Praisegod
Post Number: 106
Registered: 3-2004
| | Posted on Saturday, August 14, 2004 - 7:02 am: | |
Dane, I agree with you. Both our son and daughter had one year each of home schooling at different times and did well. But my kids were each self-motivated and we never had battles over doing homework.
Back in my days of teaching high school, the problems I ran into with previous home schoolers didnít necessarily relate to academics. Some of them were on grade level or above academically yet had problems sustaining attention for a 50 minute class period. What I believe they might have been used to was starting and stopping their class work at will or when something else came up at home. The parents probably didnít object as long as the class work was getting done.
My other concern with home schoolers was the conservative parents who sought to isolate their kids from ìthe worldî thus often ending up with academically bright kids who had no ability to properly interact with other kids. I watched some really struggle with learning how to make adult choices because they had seldom been allowed healthy socialization opportunities.
Praise God... |
Lydell
Registered user
Username: Lydell
Post Number: 626
Registered: 7-2000
| | Posted on Monday, August 16, 2004 - 7:37 am: | |
We homeschooled our two sons for 16 years. The older of the two graduated Magna Cum Laude and is now an Electrical Engineer. He once took 5 math courses in one semester and remained on the dean's list! Math is my worst subject, I hate it with a passion, so does my husband. There was just a natural gifting there for math. During our schooling days, we got excellent materials in his hands, did what we could, and put him in touch with a math-gifted friend who could answer any questions. Obviously it worked well.
He has numerous friends his own age and is respected by people of all ages. While a teenager he joined a local computer club in our area. He was the only teen there. It didn't bother him. As he told me once, friends are usually people who share your interests, no big deal.
Our younger son is gifted with his hands. He went to college, got a welding certificate, worked in the field for awhile and decided it wasn't for him. He then got himself a job that has trained him to be a helicopter mechanic and is about to get his A and P license.
The guy is a magnet for little kids. He has been a leader in the teens group at our church, is leading the 20 something group at church, and we continually hear "he is such a pleasant person to be with" from people of all ages. One elderly man had told us of his high regard for Dan's integrity and then said, "now THAT'S a man!"
Through our 16 years I have known numerous excellent homeschooling families. I've also known some who are not. I've also seen excellent kids come through public school and private school. I've also seen kids come through both who can't read or write and are totally anti-social.
The problem is not homeschooling folks, the problem is parenting! There are some people who should never have had children. It doesn't matter where they go to school, at home/private/public, what you see with the kids is the parents responsability. Parents are ALL teachers! It's just that some refuse to ever acknowledge that they have that job. |
Colleentinker
Registered user
Username: Colleentinker
Post Number: 572
Registered: 12-2003
| | Posted on Monday, August 16, 2004 - 1:52 pm: | |
Lydell, you pretty much summarized my observations over the years!
Colleen |
Tealeaves
Registered user
Username: Tealeaves
Post Number: 173
Registered: 5-2004
| | Posted on Sunday, September 05, 2004 - 10:55 am: | |
Perhaps the issue of homeschooling is not one a person can pass any sort of general judmgent on. It has to be evaluated ona parent by parent, student by student basis.
That beings aid, I am quite wary of homsechooling. I knew several kids (at least 10) that were homsechooled when I was in school myself, and they were pretty socially inept. They didn't know what ot do with themselves in a group of peers. They didn't get their faith tested, and so many of them, when they went to college, really "hit the wall hard." so to speak. (much like many of the SDA kids I knew in college.)
I know a lot of people in our area homeschool now. A friend of mine, who lives in a different state from me, is planning on homeshooling, and I am so afraid it will be a disaster. She can't even control her kids during dinner. They are master manipulators. I just cringe at the thought. But I support her in it, because she is convicted that it is the "right thing to do."
I, peronally, have very little patience. And I think that my kids need a break from me as much as I do from them. My oldest, now 3 and a half years old, asks to "go to school" every day since I explained what school is. I started him out in a soccer class, and he absolutely thrived on the group atmosphere. So i signed him up for a Christian preschool class 2 hours a day 2 days a week. he is so excited I think he might explode. I know it is the right decision for him.
Back to homeschooling: Some of the concerns I have about it are social in nature. I think kids need to have many different people influencing them as they grow up. they need various role models, and they need to test themselves while they are still in their parent's homes. Kids who grow up in tribal societies rarely go through the major upheaval that adolescence in "modern" cultures do. I think it has to do with the influence of the tribe. The fact that they get their sense of consistency and value from many different people. They are part of something bigger than themselves.
I have seen so many kids that are aware only of thier own little microcosm. They get homeschooled, and go to church, and that is it. And the world scares them.
-That is my biggest concern with homeschooling.
Again, I guess it has to be evaluated on an individual basis. I just don't see it as very liekly for my family. But I don't rule it out, if God asks me to do it someday, I will jump in.
That is just my 0.02$ worth
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Dane
Registered user
Username: Dane
Post Number: 36
Registered: 4-2004
| | Posted on Sunday, September 05, 2004 - 1:47 pm: | |
I agree that the socialization issue can be a concern. To help with this, it is becoming more common to find homeschoolers joining together in local associations that share ideas, play sports, take field trips, etc.
I also think it is very important for the homeschool student to be involved with youth at their church.
Dane |
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