Post Number: 694
|Posted on Tuesday, June 18, 2013 - 5:51 pm: || |
I have been working on Sabbath School Commentary and found a website where the author made a wonderful point that even though Adventists make the claim that they are Trinitarian, they cannot be trinitarian and continue to teach that Michael the Arch Angel is Jesus.
I didn't realize until today that the Adventist organization did not put out a statement of faith on the trinity until 15 years after Ellen G. White died. They were officially a non trinitarian organization until several years after she died.
Here are some things that are worth having in your resource file on your computer:
1903: "The man Christ Jesus was not the Lord God Almighty" (ms 150, SDA Bible Commentary Vol. 5, p. 1129)
1904: "To Christ had been given an exalted position. He has been made equal with the Father" (Testimonies vol. 8, p. 268)
1905: Rev 10:6 "In swearing by the creator, the angel who is Christ, swore by himself" (ms 129; Bible Commentary vol. 7, p. 798)
Also, here are some changes made to scripture by the author of the Clear Word to propagate EGW's positions on the Adventist Jesus.
1 Ths 4:16 "When Christ descends from heaven, (adds) He as Michael the Archangel will give a shout…"
Rev 12:7 "…(adds) God’s Son Michael and the loyal angels fought against the dragon…"
Jude 9 "…(adds) the Lord Jesus Christ, also called Michael the Archangel…"
John 8:58 "…before Abraham was I AM" changed to "I existed before Abraham was born"
Col 1:16 "…By Him all things were created" changed to "…through him the Father created"
Col 1:15 "He is the firstborn over all creation" changed "He has the right to be placed over all creation"
Col 1:18 ".that in all things He might have pre-eminence" changed "…therefore He is worthy to be given first place."
Col 1:18 "He is the Beginning" changed to "He existed from the beginning"
Col 1:19 "The Father acknowledged Him as fully God, (adds) in spite of his human nature"
Heb 1:10 "You, O Yhwh, in the beginning laid the foundations of the earth…" is changed to "You existed before the beginning of time. You carried out our plan and created…"
Jn 20:28 "My Lord and My God" changed "Lord, you’re alive! They were right! I believe! You are the Son of God".
Acts 2:25 "I foresaw Yhwh always before my face" changed "I have seen the presence of God in all my life"
Tit 1:3,4; 3:4-6; 2:13; 2 Pet 1:1 Takes identity of ‘God’ from Jesus Christ, sometimes gives it to the Father!
John 10:30 "I and My Father are One" changed "I and my Father are so close we’re One"
Rev 3:14 "…the beginning (source) of the creation of God" changed to "who is in charge of God’s creation"
Rom 10:9,10 omits "that Jesus is LORD (Yhwh)"; "you shall be saved" changed: "you have the relation you need"
Post Number: 470
|Posted on Tuesday, June 18, 2013 - 9:59 pm: || |
Yes. The SDA denomination is not trinatarian. They teach three seperate and distinct Gods who are in full agreement and harmony with one another. The result of this total harmony and agreement between the three gives the illusion to non SDA's who understand God as one God in a Trinity way . The SDA's as with the JW's will at every opportunity point out to the unexpecting that the word trinity is not used in the Bible. At one point in my past i did a study on the concept and word trinity but to put it in a nutshell the word came about centuries ago to give understanding to the masses so they could make sense if and understand the three aspects of the one and only God. And, yes, even though many SDA's are unaware of Jesus as Michael the Arkangle, ut is still the officiaSofficialSDa teaching as is made plane in their book of 28 Fundamental s.
Post Number: 3124
|Posted on Wednesday, June 19, 2013 - 9:16 am: || |
Wow! That's horrible! It reminds me of the Jehovah's Witness "bible."
Post Number: 14485
|Posted on Wednesday, June 19, 2013 - 4:28 pm: || |
Free, these are great references. You are exactly right; Adventism is not Trinitarian, and Jesus is not fully and completely God, possessed of all God's attributes (including omnipresence) and eternal existence.
The pre-creation stories of EGW further reduce Him by saying God exalted Him to be equal with Himself...thus triggering the Great Controversy and Satan's jealousy.
Adventism is not Christian.
Post Number: 53
|Posted on Wednesday, June 19, 2013 - 4:56 pm: || |
Where are these early commentaries available ?
Post Number: 17
|Posted on Wednesday, June 19, 2013 - 6:55 pm: || |
Adventists can't be true trinitarians if they want to hold onto the "Great Controversy" and Ellen White. The idea that God the Father elevated the Son to the "inner circle" thus setting off Lucifer's rebellion is ludicrous in light of the Trinity. They will argue ad nauseum that they are true trinitarians, much like they claim to believe in Sola Scriptura and Sola Fide. Sorry, but their entire theology is off.
Post Number: 54
|Posted on Thursday, June 20, 2013 - 8:08 am: || |
Nevermind. I see you are saying what year the quote is from, the MS# in question and that it is listed in the current / only SDA Bible Commentary.
Post Number: 14489
|Posted on Friday, June 21, 2013 - 2:58 pm: || |
And by the way, the former Adventist commentaries on the Sabbath School lessons are here:
There are three-and-a-half years' worth of commentaries written by formers addressing the Sabbath School lessons. There's a wealth of insightful reading there!
Post Number: 328
|Posted on Friday, June 21, 2013 - 5:53 pm: || |
I know vengeance is the Lord's but I wish He would let me borrow some. And also with it, the intel for a surgical strike, for example a virus in their servers. Like Kahn said in STlll "revenge is a dish best served cold". Just an honest thought among my human fantasies re that organization.
Post Number: 60
|Posted on Friday, June 21, 2013 - 7:01 pm: || |
Surfed that site. Those who worked on this have put a lot of work into it. Hope they have their lawyers lined up. You know as well as I how this new website will go over. If you haven't you should take notes from Dirk and others on how they succeed and what they wish they did/didn't do. They have been fighting against the legal structures of the Estate and GC for a long time.
Best of luck.
Trans4mer... Recite Psalm 101 a few times. It fits nicely with your mood
(Message edited by Lucias on June 21, 2013)
Post Number: 2875
|Posted on Saturday, June 22, 2013 - 7:17 am: || |
I think I can speak for all the other commentators. So far I haven't needed a lawyer. I would consider it a blessing if the need should ever arise. I do what I do out of love for those who are shackled in the bondage of the false non-gospel. The results is in the hands of the Lord and not for me to be worried or concerned about except to pray that the Holy Spirit will work in their lives and give them life giving freedom of the pure simply gospel of Jesus Christ.
Post Number: 61
|Posted on Saturday, June 22, 2013 - 8:04 am: || |
Don't get me wrong Phil.... I think its good. I read some of the commentaries to the lessons, good work btw!
But I have seen these critters in their native habitat. Maybe its just the estate folks who are so ruthless. Dirk and his Ellen White site have been pursued to the ends of the earth.
I suppose the old saying is true though.... "If you aren't taking flak you aren't over the target".
Keep up the good work.
Post Number: 329
|Posted on Saturday, June 22, 2013 - 3:44 pm: || |
Well put Phil. You surely spoke for me.
Lucias, Ps. 101 is bland compared to Ps. 109. That one is THE chapter that I would call world class vengeance.
Post Number: 2019
|Posted on Sunday, June 23, 2013 - 3:31 pm: || |
I concur, nicely stated Phil.
Post Number: 14491
|Posted on Monday, June 24, 2013 - 2:21 pm: || |
Post Number: 7
|Posted on Sunday, September 01, 2013 - 11:01 am: || |
Could someone clarify for me - is www.BibleStudiesforAdventists.com
a site that refutes the lesson studies the SDA church uses, thus showing how they are biblically wrong?
Post Number: 2916
|Posted on Sunday, September 01, 2013 - 1:13 pm: || |
If you scroll to the bottom of the opening page of the link you are asking about you will see that it is sponsored by Life Assurance Ministries which also supports this forum and Proclamation Magazine. It consists primarily of Bible-based commentaries keyed to the Adult Sabbath School Quarterly material.
Dale and Carolyn Ratzlaff are the original founders of Life Assurance Ministries. Currently Richard Tinker is the president/CEO and Colleen Tinker is the editor. Mostly here on the forum we see Colleen’s postings. Richard serves in the background as moderator and does all the ‘nuts and bolts’ to keep everything running to the glory of our Savior.
If you turn to the homepage http://www.formeradventist.com that supports this forum you will see that there are many other things that can be of interest in your journey into evangelical Biblical Christianity.
Post Number: 2917
|Posted on Sunday, September 01, 2013 - 1:26 pm: || |
I guess I could have simply said "yes" to your question instead of my normal 'long answer'.
(Message edited by philharris on September 01, 2013)
Post Number: 3198
|Posted on Monday, September 02, 2013 - 11:42 am: || |
Mountaingirl; welcome to the forum!
Post Number: 8
|Posted on Monday, September 02, 2013 - 9:17 pm: || |