| Author |
Message |
U2bsda
Registered user
Username: U2bsda
Post Number: 213
Registered: 11-2004
| | Posted on Wednesday, October 04, 2006 - 8:13 pm: |     |
Timmy said "A few years before I left, our SDA church booted a guy for eating pork and riding his bike on the Sabbath. Pork eating is considered a very serious issue here. You would not be considered an Adventist here if you said "eating pork had nothing to do with salvation."
Wow, are you in the USA? Riding his bike on Sabbath??? I could understand that if driving a car on the Sabbath was taboo, but it seems quite silly. That church should take a tour of Andrews University on Sabbath to see how many people are riding bikes. |
Colleentinker
Registered user
Username: Colleentinker
Post Number: 4717
Registered: 12-2003
| | Posted on Wednesday, October 04, 2006 - 8:28 pm: | |
I know Adventists who probably wouldn't consider those dietary items directly related to salvation, but they believe they ARE related to keeping their "temple" healthy and pure, and taking care of the temple is related to hearing the Holy Spirit and being holy. So indirectly they believe they areówell, ALMOST sins. Probably coffee would actually be a sin, while the other things you might slip by with if you didn't use it yourself but ate it at another's house.
It's hard to separate diet from sin and salvation in a truly observant historic Adventist. Ditto for riding bikes on Sabbath, wading, etc. And this is California!
Colleen |
Snowboardingmom
Registered user
Username: Snowboardingmom
Post Number: 181
Registered: 11-2005
| | Posted on Wednesday, October 04, 2006 - 11:29 pm: | |
Leigh Anne - I've been thinking about your story of what your mother-in-law said to your daughter quite a bit today. I can totally see a similar thing happening to my son (my in-laws are very passive aggressive and don't understand boundaries either). As soon as I read it, I thought, "oh my goodness, that could be our story!" It impacted me so much (and worried me!), that I made my husband talk about it with me this evening. So thank you for sharing your story! It's something that I needed to hear and realize as a very real possibility in our family.
I have a question for you. Now that your daughter is 7 years old, what does she think about the Adventist grandparents? Does she act differently around them (like not want to do things on Sabbath, or avoid talking about Sunday school, etc.), or does she openly talk with them about wanting to watch cartoons saturday morning, etc? How do they react to her now? Do they treat her as if she's "lost"? Did you have to set boundaries? Or did they just happen?
Grace |
Tricia
Registered user
Username: Tricia
Post Number: 10
Registered: 3-2006
| | Posted on Thursday, October 05, 2006 - 12:13 am: | |
Leigh Anne- I can totally relate to how you must have felt when your Mother-in-law said that to your child. AHHH yes, my own Mother has said some doosies to both of my kids- ages 10 and 14. It's a tough situation for us that isn't getting better with time. I will pray deeply for you and other people in the situation. Please pray for us, also
Blessings,
Tricia |
Timmy
Registered user
Username: Timmy
Post Number: 57
Registered: 8-2006
| | Posted on Thursday, October 05, 2006 - 5:52 am: | |
U2, Yes we are in the USA, in fact Michigan! Right down the road from Andrews University. I was at the board meeting that discussed this mans 'membership termination,' He was asking theological questions at the time, but you cannot kick someone out for asking questions, so I had the impression they were digging for excuses to boot him, the bottom line was, he wasn't keeping the Sabbath (riding his bike) and he was eating pork (pepperoni on his pizza)
South of us are two SDA churches, they are about 15 miles apart, at one you will go to hell for eating any meat or drinking coffee, at the other it doesn't matter if you eat meat and drink coffee. It seems that the difference is if the church is Bible based or EGW based. It's just all way to confusing and inconsistant for me. Isn't the meaning of Babylon "confusion?" |
U2bsda
Registered user
Username: U2bsda
Post Number: 215
Registered: 11-2004
| | Posted on Thursday, October 05, 2006 - 7:23 am: | |
Wow, I'm quite close to Andrews too. That would be funny if we go to the same church  |
Grace_alone
Registered user
Username: Grace_alone
Post Number: 225
Registered: 6-2006
| | Posted on Thursday, October 05, 2006 - 12:07 pm: | |
Hi Grace,
I've been mostly fortunate - at least I think! My mil doesn't babysit very often. Most of my family lives near us, so they babysit for us. However, there are occasions that she does, and so far I haven't heard anything like the "lost" comment again. She knows that I take the kids to church every week (with Daddy, who's in denial!) and I share my faith with her all the time. My husband and I will tell her about how good they do in (public) school. Sometimes she's very passive about it, but then I hear from hubby that she wants to know when the kids will go to the Academy. (Never)
Wayne and I have explained some things to the kids, but they're so little right now that all they really know is Grandma and Grandpa go to church on Saturday. A few weeks ago we actually visited their SDA church and the kids thought it was a "boring" church. My daughter and I both wore our jewelry to church that day, but my mil never said a word about it.
On my side, I try to teach them counter-IJ and we talk about what the gospel really means. There will surely be a time when I have to explain what an SDA is!
One thing I really want, is to be respectful of my in-laws, and teach the kids that as well, while still being ourselves. I absolutely know they love me, and I love them all very much. (There was a time where they HATED the idea of me!)
Tricia, thank you so much for your prayers! I'm sorry that it's your own Mom and not just a mil.
I will certainly pray for you as well.
Leigh Anne |
Timmy
Registered user
Username: Timmy
Post Number: 60
Registered: 8-2006
| | Posted on Thursday, October 05, 2006 - 2:04 pm: | |
U2, we need to figure out how to do a former group in Michigan. I think there are a bunch of us. I think Jeff Baron, the new ellenwhite.org guy is from Mi. Unfortunatly most of the formers I know (alot of them) have nothing to do with God or religion. These are the ones I have a great desire to get the gospel to. Maybe a group would help attract them.
Any ideas? (Maybe start a new thread?) |
U2bsda
Registered user
Username: U2bsda
Post Number: 222
Registered: 11-2004
| | Posted on Friday, October 06, 2006 - 12:02 pm: | |
Great idea |
Flyinglady
Registered user
Username: Flyinglady
Post Number: 2873
Registered: 3-2004
| | Posted on Friday, October 06, 2006 - 4:09 pm: | |
U2 and Timmy,
I will keep you in my prayers as you contemplate and eventually start a formers group.
Diana |
Joyfulheart
Registered user
Username: Joyfulheart
Post Number: 1
Registered: 10-2006
| | Posted on Saturday, October 07, 2006 - 6:25 am: | |
Hi!
I'm new around here. Tomorrow, I will have been a former for three weeks. It's a long story. I live in Michigan, too. It would be great to meet together with other formers! |
Flyinglady
Registered user
Username: Flyinglady
Post Number: 2878
Registered: 3-2004
| | Posted on Saturday, October 07, 2006 - 6:47 am: | |
Welcome to FAF Joyfulheart,
It is your three week anniversary and I am so happy for you. Let us know more about yourself, when you are ready.
When God brings a new former here I cannot help but know that God is so awesome.
Diana |
Helovesme2
Registered user
Username: Helovesme2
Post Number: 668
Registered: 8-2004
| | Posted on Saturday, October 07, 2006 - 10:55 am: | |
Welcome Joyfulheart,
I love your username! One of my favorite sayings (and songs) is, "The Joy of the Lord is my strength."
I look forward to getting to know you better. Isn't freedom Jesus fun!
Blessings,
Mary |
Snowboardingmom
Registered user
Username: Snowboardingmom
Post Number: 182
Registered: 11-2005
| | Posted on Saturday, October 07, 2006 - 11:00 am: | |
Welcome Joyfulheart! Congratulations on your newfound freedom! What part of MI are you from? |
Dd
Registered user
Username: Dd
Post Number: 733
Registered: 7-2004
| | Posted on Saturday, October 07, 2006 - 1:31 pm: | |
Welcome Joyful,
Just your name says it all...your joy is found in the peace that passes understanding when we give up all the trying and doing and surrender all to Jesus.
Looking forward to hearing more from you.
Joyful, joyful we adore Him!
Denise |
Colleentinker
Registered user
Username: Colleentinker
Post Number: 4741
Registered: 12-2003
| | Posted on Saturday, October 07, 2006 - 1:33 pm: | |
Welcome, Joyfulheart! What a great way to celebrate your three-week anniversary, posting here with us. We look forward to hearing more from you!
Colleen |
Joyfulheart
Registered user
Username: Joyfulheart
Post Number: 2
Registered: 10-2006
| | Posted on Saturday, October 07, 2006 - 7:21 pm: | |
Hi Everyone,
Thank you so much for the very warm welcome! It means so much!
I still find Sabbaths at home a bit hard. I was kind of forced out. I was causing people to question doctrine - and questioning openly myself. My questions were honest and Bible based, but I guess I became too much of a threat. The church leaders had to do something. I do love the people in the church. They're in love with the Lord and want to do the right thing, but are deceived. This situation has been hard on everybody involved. I pray for them.
A new era with Jesus is beginning. It has been fun to read about the journeys many of you have taken to truth and freedom in Christ. May we all live lives that will honor Him as we discover the truth and freedom knowing Jesus brings. May all of our stories and new lives in Christ bring Him glory...
Joyfulheart
|
Grace_alone
Registered user
Username: Grace_alone
Post Number: 229
Registered: 6-2006
| | Posted on Saturday, October 07, 2006 - 8:28 pm: | |
Hi Joyful, Welcome! Your bravery in leaving your church is inspiring. I'm sure it was hard and very scary. May God bless you tenfold in your new journey.
You're among friends here!
Leigh Anne
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Joyfulheart
Registered user
Username: Joyfulheart
Post Number: 3
Registered: 10-2006
| | Posted on Sunday, October 08, 2006 - 10:46 am: | |
Hi!
Thanks! I do feel like I'm among friends!
I live in south-eastern lower Michigan about 3.5 hours away from Andrews and about 2.5 hours away from GLAA.
Snowboardingmom,are you from Michigan, too?
Joyfulheart |
Mwh
Registered user
Username: Mwh
Post Number: 185
Registered: 4-2006
| | Posted on Sunday, October 08, 2006 - 3:43 pm: | |
Welcome Joyfulheart!!! Glad you are here with us, would be nice to hear your testimony some day. Feel free to ask any questions you may have.
Jesus is the great "I am"! |
Snowboardingmom
Registered user
Username: Snowboardingmom
Post Number: 183
Registered: 11-2005
| | Posted on Tuesday, October 10, 2006 - 11:36 am: | |
Hi Joyfulheart,
I live in Southern CA right now, but I grew up in MI. I attended both Andrews and GLAA. I graduated from GLAA in '94 and finished at Andrews in '97. So south-eastern lower MI puts you about in the Troy-Detroit area? |
Timmy
Registered user
Username: Timmy
Post Number: 65
Registered: 8-2006
| | Posted on Tuesday, October 10, 2006 - 1:00 pm: | |
Joyfulheart, I am from Mi. and U2Bsda is too! We need to get connected. There are about 6 or 8 of us running arround our town. My wife and I were kind of 'forced out' too. Or old pastor boasted that he 'muscled' us out...
Tim |
Joyfulheart
Registered user
Username: Joyfulheart
Post Number: 4
Registered: 10-2006
| | Posted on Tuesday, October 10, 2006 - 6:54 pm: | |
Hi Snowboardingmom, Very good! YOu know your Michigan geography! Do you ever get back this way? Do you have relatives here? I would be so great to get together with former SDAs! I've been to Andrews and GLAA to visit several times, but never attended either. I came in as an adult through a prophecy seminar. I bet we know many people in common.
Hi Tim, I would really like to get connected. I'm glad there are others in Michigan! I have a Sunday church, but am missing the fellowship I had in the SDA church. They were (are) really great people. Sabbaths with them were always special. I miss them so much! It seemed like a huge family. The stuff that happened really hurt. Were you asking questions about doctrine, too? What a shame that pastors of the church of Jesus Christ "muscle people out" and then brag about it.
It's quite a job now trying to figure out what doctrine to discard and what to keep. My questions were honest - and not meant to upset anyone. I guess I became a threat. God allowed this - and am trusting Him to bring good out of it. I'm still kind of hurting because of the way it was done. Truthfully, I don't think they knew any other way. I do pray for them. I loved that church and just wish they had correct doctrine. Nobody from the church has contacted me since it all happened. That's what hurts most of all! I'm assuming they still love me, but don't know what to say or how to respond.
If you think about it, please pray for me. I want to forgive and love them as Jesus does. I want to bless those that - well - aren't exactly blessing me right now. Matt. 5 says we're blessed when people say all manner of evil against us falsely because of Him. I pray that my response to all this will honor the Lord and that I will not return evil for evil.
In all this though, I refuse to let Satan steal the joy and peace I have in Jesus! He is Lord!
Thank you Lord for this forum!
Joyfulheart
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Flyinglady
Registered user
Username: Flyinglady
Post Number: 2893
Registered: 3-2004
| | Posted on Tuesday, October 10, 2006 - 7:20 pm: | |
Joyfulheart,
It is spiritual warfare and the people in the church appear to be rejecting you, but it is Jesus Christ they are really rejecting. They are afraid their applecart will be upset. But that is something about which you can do nothing. So keep you eyes on Jesus and pray for yourself and for those who are left behind. I like your last sentence where you say you refuse to let Satan steal the joy and peace you have with Jesus! He is Lord! You are so right. Satan cannot take you out of Jesus hand and Jesus is Lord. He is so awesome.
Diana |
Colleentinker
Registered user
Username: Colleentinker
Post Number: 4761
Registered: 12-2003
| | Posted on Tuesday, October 10, 2006 - 9:04 pm: | |
Joyfulheart, Diana is right. This is spiritual warfare, and you are taking the arrows for Jesus. Paul said in Philippians 3:10-11: "I want to know Christ and the power of his resurrection and the fellowship of sharing in his sufferings, becoming like him in his death, and so, somehow, to attain to the resurrection from the dead."
You are safe in Jesus.
Praying for you!
Colleen |
Randyg
Registered user
Username: Randyg
Post Number: 278
Registered: 12-2004
| | Posted on Tuesday, October 10, 2006 - 9:38 pm: | |
Joyfulheart,
I too want to welcome you to this family. We are an odd lot scattered by distance, but we love the Lord and we understand and love each other.
It is so sad that there is little to no room for theological debate and differences in the Adventist Church. This certainly eliminates any opportunity for growth and understanding.
You are not alone in being muscled out for asking sincere questions on Scripture and doctrine. Many of the brightest minds in Adventism over the last 150 years have been forced out for exactly what you have done.
I recognize the pain you are feeling regarding the separation from your church family, and the positive traditions found in Adventism.
We all have experienced it to some degree or another. I hope you will find the freedom to question and challenge,as well as the freedom to share and learn on this forum, as I have. For many of us, the people on this forum have become part of our Church family, and we welcome you with open arms.
Blest Be The Tie That Binds,
Randy
Ps...great name! |
Timmy
Registered user
Username: Timmy
Post Number: 66
Registered: 8-2006
| | Posted on Wednesday, October 11, 2006 - 5:53 am: | |
Joyfulheart, Yes, your story is very similiar to ours. We started asking questions hoping to get answers, when we didn't get any we started asking more and more people getting rather disturbed that there was no Biblical response to our questions.
The search for truth can seem rather overwhelming when you are used to having all the answers at your fingertips. But believe it or not, in time we have found that this just makes us rely on our Savior all the more.
I also have to agree that the people we left are great people. They would not put themselves through such rigid laws and rules if they were not sincere. They love their Lord and they are just trying to please him or earn his favor. I have to remind myself daily, when I think of how we were treated, to "love them like Jesus" the words of a Casting Crowns song really hit home and apply in this situation.
We really need to take this to the next step. You, U2, my wife and I, plus my sister and a few others could have a really neat meeting. I guess we need to email from here?
ts
|
Snowboardingmom
Registered user
Username: Snowboardingmom
Post Number: 185
Registered: 11-2005
| | Posted on Thursday, October 12, 2006 - 6:22 pm: | |
Joyfulheart -- I'm sure we do know some of the same people. I know A LOT of people from your area. Many of my friends grew up in that area, and I know many of the elders and pastors of the churches in that area pretty well. Yes, both my husband's family and my family are still out in MI so we get out there at least once a year. Our visits are usually marathon visits in trying to see our families and friends within the 2 weeks we're there so we don't get to do much on our own time -- unfortunately!
In some ways, I really miss MI. I miss the trees, the lakes, and the seasons, and it was always interesting to see the deer strapped to car roofs during deer hunting season. You just don't see that here!
I'm sorry about what you went through with your church. It's never easy. I'm glad you found the fellowship of this forum!
God bless,
Grace |
