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Mainexile
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Username: Mainexile

Post Number: 227
Registered: 6-2008


Posted on Thursday, August 30, 2018 - 9:08 am:   Edit PostDelete PostPrint Post   Move Post (Moderator/Admin Only)

Been thinking about things for a while and feeling a bit ambivalent and guilty about church.
Don't get me wrong, I like the pastor (he was the person who baptised me) and I like music. Even Christian music. I even played in a praise group back in the day. (Late 60's - early 70's).
I just don't care for "praise" music .. or "7/11" music as a friend of mine calls it (7 words/11 minutes)... or standing through it all for about 20 minutes.. . It's also a bit too loud.

That's just my opinion. Am I being picky? Am I being too critical? Some would say I'm missing the point of being at church. I'm willing to admit to all of the above, to a certain degree. Thus, the ambivalent/guilty state of mind.

But I ran across this, this morning. Once again, Todd Friel and Alistair Begg nailed it. I found myself yelling, "YES!" at my computer screen.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=gJhCWrdckpc
Philharris
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Username: Philharris

Post Number: 3265
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Posted on Thursday, August 30, 2018 - 6:46 pm:   Edit PostDelete PostPrint Post   Move Post (Moderator/Admin Only)

Yes, nailed it!
Stevendi
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Username: Stevendi

Post Number: 457
Registered: 10-2006
Posted on Friday, August 31, 2018 - 4:46 am:   Edit PostDelete PostPrint Post   Move Post (Moderator/Admin Only)

Amen. I'm a musician, played praise groups for years, but I admit this is my least favorite part of worship. I endure it only to get to the Word. I try to sit through it sometimes, but all I can see is the wiggling, jiggling backsides of dancing, waving bodies overdosed on caffine and memorized praise mantras. Lord, make them stop already!
Jonasaras
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Post Number: 71
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Posted on Friday, August 31, 2018 - 9:26 pm:   Edit PostDelete PostPrint Post   Move Post (Moderator/Admin Only)

Worship music need not be stupid. The worship leader of my church composes excellent material: https://youtu.be/xxSfBAXdapM
Spudw
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Username: Spudw

Post Number: 166
Registered: 8-2008


Posted on Sunday, September 02, 2018 - 10:26 am:   Edit PostDelete PostPrint Post   Move Post (Moderator/Admin Only)

I'm an old-school guy who likes a more traditional service and music. That said, when I first started attending my church, I remember the kids getting up and playing special music one service. They had a guitar up there and a set of drums and I found myself mentally harrumphing about this praise music and how I didn't care for it one bit. And then it hit me. This is how these kids are celebrating their relationship with their Lord and Savior, and I'm glad that they are here in church on a Sunday morning playing some music that isn't my cup of tea, instead of laying in bed at home hungover from being out raising cain on a Saturday night. This music wasn't a salvational issue, it was a matter of taste. It was something that fell under the category of Christian Liberty and maybe I ought to just admit I was being a bit of an old curmudgeon and be thankful that the kids were here in church.
Fdegourville
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Username: Fdegourville

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Posted on Sunday, September 02, 2018 - 9:10 pm:   Edit PostDelete PostPrint Post   Move Post (Moderator/Admin Only)

I was really hoping this thread was going to be about the actual title, because that is where I've found myself.

I am a new christian, recently free'd from the bondage of adventism. I find myself in a bit of a situation where I no longer know what church is, or is "supposed" to be like, or even where to attend.

My family and I were led to a small church plant where we feel like we have an opportunity to be fed the true word of God. It is a very young Calvary chapel, VERY small, which we liked at first, but are not sure at this moment.
I have a young family, 2 children, and my wife and I practically have no friends in our city, much less true christian friends.

We are stuck between going to either "Charismatic", "New age", "post-modern", "Emergent"...type "Christian" churches...or the heavily conservative types.

Our current group is comfortably in between, and we love our pastor and his wife (who invited us), who are also former Adventists, but we desperately need a larger community for the health and sanity of our family.

So I guess my question is...what is the point of Church really (from a biblical standpoint), and how do we find the right place to be?

I do believe we were led to where we are...but it would sure be nice to meet and get to know some other christian families that we can fellowship and hang out with.
Spudw
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Username: Spudw

Post Number: 167
Registered: 8-2008


Posted on Monday, September 03, 2018 - 7:58 am:   Edit PostDelete PostPrint Post   Move Post (Moderator/Admin Only)

Dear Fdegourville,
You nailed what going to church is supposed to be from a biblical standpoint in your last sentence. It is about being able to fellowship with other Christians. Let the Holy Spirit lead you in your search. The search itself can be a wonderful Christian experience. I'd suggest that you find what each church's "this we believe" statement is and high-tail it if something seems half a bubble off of plumb biblically. I remember my first service with my church family. I found myself thinking "Oh Lord, I'm actually in a Sunday church. Am I dooming myself?". But I wasn't in that church 10 minutes before it was made plain that this was a church that was filled with the Holy Spirit. I'm not talking about it in a charismatic way, just that it was obvious that these people were truly Christ-followers. And let me tell you about Wednesday night bible study. Oh my, did these people know their bibles. There was no preacher feeding them proof-texts and everyone walking in lockstep. These people knew their Scriptures every bit as well as any preacher that I had ever met and they understood context. And it was all about who you worship, not when. All the best in your search.
Jonasaras
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Username: Jonasaras

Post Number: 72
Registered: 9-2012
Posted on Monday, September 03, 2018 - 9:24 pm:   Edit PostDelete PostPrint Post   Move Post (Moderator/Admin Only)

Home churches, or at least good ones, probably have the greatest potential for most closely resembling what the early Christian church was like. The modern church has been influenced by modern American corporation/non-profit organization laws in ways that are not Biblical. Itís not necessarily a negstive thing, but youíve gotta sort the apples and oranges.
Leifl
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Username: Leifl

Post Number: 214
Registered: 3-2014


Posted on Tuesday, September 04, 2018 - 5:39 am:   Edit PostDelete PostPrint Post   Move Post (Moderator/Admin Only)

Jonas: I agree with you in principle (Romans 16:5 and 1 Corinthians 16:9 speaks of the "church in your house").

I have seen and experienced spiritual abuse in a home church where my wife and I were for many years. I doubt this kind of abuse would have been able to continue for so long in a larger group where there was more accountability.

What you say about the American "mega-church" business model is also twisted ... though I know some of these large churches have excellent teaching (Grace Community/John MacArthur is one example).

My wife and I are active members of a smaller Baptist church that has been a place where we and our 9 children have been able to heal, and grow in the Lord. The theology is Biblically conservative (small "o" orthodox) while there is room for various dress codes and other external customs (from head coverings on one extreme to jeans and T-shirts on the other). This diversity has helped us to see past the external (where women were compelled to wear skirts, no jewelry, no makeup).

Mainexile: If you find a congregation that is faithful to the Scriptures in their teaching, ministering to their congregation and in their community, and has a good sense of community and goodwill among the members, I would suggest that you overlook the music. Perhaps in the future you can make suggestions for them to play the music that uplifts you, if that is traditional hymns. We sing a mix in our church; we are anchored in hymns, but add some more modern choruses as well, as long as they are theologically sound and not overly repetitive.
Colleentinker
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Username: Colleentinker

Post Number: 15567
Registered: 12-2003


Posted on Monday, September 10, 2018 - 6:10 pm:   Edit PostDelete PostPrint Post   Move Post (Moderator/Admin Only)

Welcome, Fdegourville! You've received great insights here. It's really hard to find a church...especially since getting used to "Sunday" overshadows so much.

I agree that there is often room for abuses in home churches where those things might not occur in larger churches with more accountability.

In essence, the gospel, the word of God, the cross of Christ, and the Trinity must be central. Churches that make the Holy Spirit central are focussing away from the biblical focal point. The Holy Spirit leads us to JESUS, not to Himself.

Spud above is right on when he says to look for the Belief statement.

Mainexile, I so GET your predicament. You know, it seems odd, perhaps, but at Redeemer Fellowship, our 2 1/2 year old church plant in Loma Linda, we simply do not have people in the congregation who are equipped to conduct and prepare worship. We actually sing to pre-recorded music, and we use different artists as backgrounds. We sing theologically rich praise and worship music, and the congregation really sings. We love it. I've heard members say, "This pre-recorded music beats a bad live band!" Ha!

Our sermons are always deep expository teaching. I know how blessed we are to have Gary Inrig every week, but there are other good preachers out there. The Lord knows where we need to be.

Just BTW, we livestream our services, and all the sermons are online here: https://www.redeemerlomalinda.org/sermons.html

Lives streaming is no long-term substitute for a local church body, though. There is so much strength and accountability and support in a group of God's children worshiping and sharing their lives together. There's a reason the Lord puts us in families in Jesus!

Here is an audio file of Gary Inrig teaching at the 2007 FAF Conference on "How To Choose A Church": http://lifeassuranceministries.org/faf2007/GaryInrig2007.mp3

Colleen
Freedom55
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Username: Freedom55

Post Number: 108
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Posted on Saturday, January 12, 2019 - 10:04 am:   Edit PostDelete PostPrint Post   Move Post (Moderator/Admin Only)

The Bible verse that comes to mind regarding the point of church is Hebrews 10:25 where it basically says when we assemble together we need to encourage one another. So if we're not encouraging one another, then we're not doing church right. In that regard, I still attend the SDA church to be with my wife, but I often leave the church angry or discouraged. That's not what church should be. During the week, we face many struggles, often get beat up by the world, and we all need to find a place where we are encouraged, strengthened & empowered to meet the challenges of the coming week. Hopefully your church is doing that.
Bellyman
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Username: Bellyman

Post Number: 13
Registered: 4-2019
Posted on Wednesday, July 17, 2019 - 10:32 am:   Edit PostDelete PostPrint Post   Move Post (Moderator/Admin Only)

It's an older thread, but...

Stevendi writes:

"Amen. I'm a musician, played praise groups for years, but I admit this is my least favorite part of worship. I endure it only to get to the Word. I try to sit through it sometimes, but all I can see is the wiggling, jiggling backsides of dancing, waving bodies overdosed on caffine and memorized praise mantras. Lord, make them stop already!"

Wow! You must have been sitting near me! LOL!!

Seriously, I am a musician, too. More traditional style, classically trained, but leaning more towards jazz than rock n roll. Played piano and organ in SDA churches for over 40 years. I would actually be better able to blend in with a "black gospel" sound than most contemporary gospel. They like some really cool chord structures. ;)

This is something I struggle with, more so in some places than others. But I crave the Biblical teaching and there are churches out there that are exceptional in their teaching of the Word. So far, most have a heavy contemporary flair to the music, too, and I have determined that when it's too much for me, I'll go hang out by the coffee pot or someplace similar until the preaching starts.

It may be that someday I'll find a place that fits me perfectly. It may even be that someday I'll find a place where I can be a part of the music again. I'd really love that. But contemporary just ain't me. (I tried it about 30 years go with a band, and with at least one member that almost everyone would recognize. But even as a young adult, I still couldn't handle the intensity of contemporary.)

It's taken me a while to come around to the idea that it's not all "evil". I know of at least one pastor friend (nondenominational) that is quite involved in making sure that the lyrics are Biblically sound in the music played at his church. And I appreciate that. And I have come around to the viewpoint that contemporary music, even the most dramatic of it, may "speak" to some people. I'm just not one of 'em.

Brian
Billyjobob
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Username: Billyjobob

Post Number: 3
Registered: 9-2019


Posted on Friday, September 06, 2019 - 5:15 pm:   Edit PostDelete PostPrint Post   Move Post (Moderator/Admin Only)

Since I'm a recovering troglodyte my opinion don't carry. But I always wondered why people go to church on Sabbath. Don't the Bible say God did His business in six days and on the seventh day He rested from all his work? That would mean He don't want to hear a bunch of racket whilst He's resting. He's had a rough week, what with all the nonsense the world's people throw at Him. You know, goofy prayers from football teams that want to win, and please help me find my glasses. He needs a break.

He tells us numerous times in the Bible that Sabbath is a day of REST. To me that means chill, meditate, count your blessings etc. Get some sleep and don't worry about today because you'll need everything you got to get through the next six.
Philharris
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Username: Philharris

Post Number: 3277
Registered: 5-2007


Posted on Sunday, September 08, 2019 - 8:07 am:   Edit PostDelete PostPrint Post   Move Post (Moderator/Admin Only)

Yes, your point is a good one.

In the Ten Commandments (nor anywhere else in Scripture) is there is a command to worship God on the seventh day sabbath. In Jesus time here in this world the Jews had developed two traditions. One was the so called 'Sabbath days walk'. The other was the tradition of synagogue attendance for the reading of the law. Adventist have converted these traditions into worship.

(Message edited by philharris on September 08, 2019)

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