| Author |
Message |
Cortney
Registered user
Username: Cortney
Post Number: 70
Registered: 8-2006
| | Posted on Wednesday, November 11, 2009 - 11:09 am: |     |
SDA's will always argue over the true nature of Christ. They have to decide who is telling the truth about His nature. EGW or the Bible? This can be very frustrating and confusing for any God-fearing Adventist. If they disregard EGW they would be doubting the 'truth'(which for them is separation from God), as I know from experience SDA's twist the Scriptures so that EGW's writings and the Bible are in 'harmony', or for their standards at least. Very dangerous. Thats why there are so many mis-guided and incorrect explanations to back up the 28fundies. The most horrific it the IJ, which denies Christ finished work on the Cross. It would be very easy to believe Christ had an 'adventist' nature, if you believe he's only been in the Holy of Holies since 1844! Why can't Adventist just accept Christ alone? He is perfect and Holy. |
Bskillet
Registered user
Username: Bskillet
Post Number: 634
Registered: 8-2008
| | Posted on Wednesday, November 11, 2009 - 11:44 am: | |
Speaking of Heb. 2:9-10:
quote:But we see Jesus, who was made a little lower than the angels for the suffering of death, crowned with glory and honour; that he by the grace of God should taste death for every man. For it became him, for whom are all things, and by whom are all things, in bringing many sons unto glory, to make the captain of their salvation perfect through sufferings. Hebrews 2:9-10 KJV
I've always wondered what that last part means, about making the captain of their salvation perfect through sufferings. Could someone shed some light on its meaning? |
Angelcat
Registered user
Username: Angelcat
Post Number: 141
Registered: 11-2008
| | Posted on Wednesday, November 11, 2009 - 2:27 pm: | |
Well, my folks left the church because the church had changed from it's historical position. So yeah,they are Historical Adventists. Horrible way to be raised,btw.
anyhow,this is how I was taught. The Adventist church now teaches either that jesus had a sinless anture,and that we have a sinful nature, therefore,Jesus had no advantage over us,and we can't be perfect. Or they teach Jesus had fallen nature like us,but then he would't be perfect,so that can't be right. What my paretns believe is that we,like Jesus,are born with a perfect, sinless nature. Like him,we can be perfect. If he cold do it,so can we. thre's no excuse. We are sinners by choice,not birth. We have the same nature as Christ.
I actually knew an Adventist who believed that some members of his local church had reached perfection. So I guess it's only about 143,995 or so to go. |
Colleentinker
Registered user
Username: Colleentinker
Post Number: 10631
Registered: 12-2003
| | Posted on Wednesday, November 11, 2009 - 7:22 pm: | |
quote:But we see him who for a little while was made lower than the angels, namely Jesus, crowned with glory and honor because of the suffering of death, so that by the grace of God he might taste death for everyone.
10 For it was fitting that he, for whom and by whom all things exist, in bringing many sons to glory, should make the founder of their salvation perfect through suffering. ESV
Here's what the NIV Study Notes say:
quote:Christ had not been morally or spiritually imperfect, but His incarnation was completed (perfected) when He experienced suffering. He identified with us on the deepest level of anguish, and so became qualified to pay the price for our sinful imperfection and to become our sympathetic high priest.
The Greek underlying our word "Perfect" can mean "complete". Jesus' humanity was "completed", made whole, by His suffering at the deepest levels a human can suffer--and, frankly, beyond what we suffer.
Colleen |
8thday
Registered user
Username: 8thday
Post Number: 1326
Registered: 11-2007
| | Posted on Thursday, November 12, 2009 - 11:33 am: | |
That's a great explanation of that passage! I've heard that one used wrong a few times!
I like the contrast in these verses below which kind of show the difference between why Christ did not sin.. and why every human who has been born.. does. We are born with the desire to sin.. It is this that the enemy can use to make us act out sinful things.. but it's born in us. Jesus.. on the other hand said the enemy had nothing "in" Him.. His desire was to do the will of the Father.. "for the joy set before Him, He endured the cross."
To argue about human perfection is pointless. If someone thinks it is possible to become perfect in the here and now has truly not caught even a glimpse of the glory of God, imo. Perfect isn't just ceasing from evil.. it's doing all the right things at the right time, for the right reason! It's why Romans says we FALL SHORT..
Joh 14:30 Hereafter I will not talk much with you: for the prince of this world cometh, and hath nothing in me.
Jas 1:14 But each person is tempted when he is lured and enticed by his own desire.
Sondra |
Psalm107v2
Registered user
Username: Psalm107v2
Post Number: 484
Registered: 10-2008
| | Posted on Thursday, November 12, 2009 - 12:40 pm: | |
Them is fighting words |
Nowisee
Registered user
Username: Nowisee
Post Number: 183
Registered: 5-2009
| | Posted on Thursday, November 12, 2009 - 6:32 pm: | |
Surfy, to answer your last question in your first post: No. They spend most of their reading/studying time in The Red Books.
When the movie, 'Passion of the Christ' came out, some sdas went to see it and wrote in to one of the church mags-Recorder,maybe. There was a big discussion in the "Letters to the Editor" about the movie. People were all in a twitter. The letter that jumped out at me said something like, "Why don't these people (going to see the film) stay home and read....(turn the page)... (I honestly expected to see the word 'Bible'.) What did it say?......."stay home and read 'The Desire of Ages'?" |
Hec
Registered user
Username: Hec
Post Number: 742
Registered: 3-2009
| | Posted on Thursday, November 12, 2009 - 7:31 pm: | |
quote:"Why don't these people (going to see the film) stay home and read....(turn the page)... (I honestly expected to see the word 'Bible'.) What did it say?......."stay home and read 'The Desire of Ages'?"
Maybe this was because "The Desire of Ages" have the same topic as "The Passion of the Christ?
Hec |
Believer247
Registered user
Username: Believer247
Post Number: 80
Registered: 3-2009
| | Posted on Friday, November 13, 2009 - 8:24 am: | |
Oh yes I remember a LOT of discussion of "Passion of the Christ" movie in the SS class I attended. One thing that really stands out in my memory of the discussion was that there was criticism of the movie that it "added to the Bible" in some of the scenes!!! Pot calling the kettle black! And then they would start talking about what the Desire of Ages & the Bible said....like DOA was on the same level as the Bible. |
Gcfrankie
Registered user
Username: Gcfrankie
Post Number: 645
Registered: 1-2007
| | Posted on Friday, November 13, 2009 - 10:54 am: | |
What I found interesting in these discussions about the Passion of Christ was the fact that it was a catholic rendition. Then the bashing started. Well, you know something? I would rather see the movie and follow along with my bible than read DOA.
That is true with any movie. Read the book first and then see the movie and they will not be exactly the same but the theme is.
Gail |
Grace_alone
Registered user
Username: Grace_alone
Post Number: 1594
Registered: 6-2006
| | Posted on Friday, November 13, 2009 - 11:52 am: | |
Oh my. My FIL pitched a screaming banshee fit when he found out that my MIL watched Passion of Christ with her sisters (who are all SDAs). My husband happened to be there with his brother, who is an SDA youth/associate pastor. The simple fact that the movie was produced by a Catholic was all my FIL needed to write it off. He argued for hours with my BIL about the danger of watching it, being influenced by Satan/Catholicism, etc. My BIL saw it as well and he actually appreciated it. He tried to explain how accurate it was but my FIL would have none of it. It was amazing. My husband didn't get home until 1:00 in the morning because of the discussion (which made ME mad!)
 Leigh Anne
You know, it just goes to show the mind games Satan has played on SDA believers through EGW. They have a whole different version of Jesus, so trying to recognize the real one is too confusing. They're so afraid of outside influences that they just stick to the EGW just to be "safe". |
Nowisee
Registered user
Username: Nowisee
Post Number: 192
Registered: 5-2009
| | Posted on Saturday, November 14, 2009 - 12:52 am: | |
I know,Hec, it's the same topic (kind of ), but to recommend bypassing God's word and go to EGW instead!
BTW we went and saw it--it was very professionally done, the theater was packed and the audience was sobbing. It was powerful and made me realize what Jesus actually went thru for us. Gave an 'un-sanitized' more reality based idea of what they did to our Lord Jesus, what He suffered willingly for us, so we love Him all the more. |
Flyinglady
Registered user
Username: Flyinglady
Post Number: 7714
Registered: 3-2004
| | Posted on Saturday, November 14, 2009 - 7:03 am: | |
When I went to see Passion of Christ it was with the adventists with whom I attended church. We had planned this before I decided to stop going there. When we went it was after I stopped attending. I cried througout it and realized Jesus died for me. He shed his blood for me. I personalized it. Then when I read the accounts of His crufixion in the gospels they meant more to me. I love Him as much as a human heart can love God.
He is just so awesome.
Diana L |
