| Author |
Message |
Jrt
Registered user
Username: Jrt
Post Number: 913
Registered: 10-2008
| | Posted on Monday, December 21, 2009 - 2:41 pm: |     |
Mary, thanks for that insight ... yes, turning stone into bread ...
Jeremy, appreciated your two posts above ... I have just been reading about Mormonism and had come across what you mention above - the atonement and Gethsamene were intrinsically linked in Mormon theology.
I have been reading a bit on JW and LDS - can't believe how much is similar with SDA. Well, maybe I shouldn't be so shocked  .
Keri |
River
Registered user
Username: River
Post Number: 5811
Registered: 9-2006
| | Posted on Monday, December 21, 2009 - 3:59 pm: | |
Its all about ducks trying to convince chickens they should act like a duck.
But only Sondra knows. Tis a mysterious thing for a duck to try and convince a chicken he is a duck when ducks look like ducks and chickens look like chickens, no matter how they waddle and quack.
River |
Colleentinker
Registered user
Username: Colleentinker
Post Number: 10770
Registered: 12-2003
| | Posted on Monday, December 21, 2009 - 9:10 pm: | |
You know, I still have those moments of "unreality" when I clearly see that I was actively taught a confusion of ideas--as Mary expressed as clearly as it's possible to explain!--with the bottom line Jeremy states: Jesus was "a God". It wasn't stated that way, but I understood Jesus to be separate from the Father and from the Spirit. Therefore, if He died, there were still two of 'em to be immortal, almighty, omniscient, etc.
I see clearly that these ideas are related to both JW and Mormonism, but I find myself hard-pressed to express this reality clearly to "outsiders" who have bought the oh-so-deceptive explanations of the Adventists.
They absolutely do NOT see Jesus as the real Jesus. No matter what they say, the bottom line is always a smug belief that their own parsing and definitions are truth, so it doesn't matter if they mislead the critics. And in the process they mire themselves in "cognitive dissonance"—there's that phrase again!
Colleen |
Hec
Registered user
Username: Hec
Post Number: 869
Registered: 3-2009
| | Posted on Monday, December 21, 2009 - 9:53 pm: | |
Has any one done any research or is there any document around that lists the ways SDAs Jesus is not the same Jesus as the Bible's.
For example:
Bible: Jesus could not sin
SDA: Jesus could sin
Bible: God did not die
SDA: The Son died, not the Father (two separate Gods)
etc.
Hec |
8thday
Registered user
Username: 8thday
Post Number: 1395
Registered: 11-2007
| | Posted on Tuesday, December 22, 2009 - 6:47 am: | |
Just an email in this morning... a close sda relative, explaining about how moved they were as they participated in their annual "Journey to Bethlehem" - a town they set up for tours for several nights - which sounds pretty cool - but here is what she said"
quote:The Journey to Bethlehem brought home to me more clearly than ever in my entire life just how difficult the sacrifice was that Jesus made to come to this earth. What a risk He was willing to take.
This breaks my heart and she was sooooo moved by this experience, sensing deeply the suffering of Christ, that if I confront that statement, it will only seem trying to pick a trivial argument. I wish so badly she could rest in the REAL Jesus who did not risk anything, but GAVE everything - it's such a contrast. If Jesus could have failed, then we can too.
How Sure a Foundation - the real Jesus is.
Sondra
P.S.
BTW, I wrote a chicken parable yesterday.. in honor of River Bird - who has never tried to be a duck.
http://8thday4life.wordpress.com/2009/12/21/beware-the-cluck-that-comes-with-a-waddle/ |
River
Registered user
Username: River
Post Number: 5813
Registered: 9-2006
| | Posted on Tuesday, December 22, 2009 - 7:48 am: | |
They put on a journey to Bethlehem every year over in my old neighborhood, they advertise it, and so many Christians attend this event,I imagine they think, oh how Christian these people are to go to such lengths to put on such and event, but oh how under the radar they fly.
It smites me with Leigh Anne wisdom...well...come to think of it.. I may be just smited by Leigh Anna generally!
River |
8thday
Registered user
Username: 8thday
Post Number: 1397
Registered: 11-2007
| | Posted on Tuesday, December 22, 2009 - 8:01 am: | |
This one had an attendance of about 1300 people!! |
Hec
Registered user
Username: Hec
Post Number: 871
Registered: 3-2009
| | Posted on Tuesday, December 22, 2009 - 11:43 am: | |
Hey Sondra, I like your parable.
Hec |
Jrt
Registered user
Username: Jrt
Post Number: 914
Registered: 10-2008
| | Posted on Tuesday, December 22, 2009 - 1:18 pm: | |
Sondra,
Great parable. I would imagine that the chickens who were trying to be ducks also lost their ability to lay eggs and therefore, the farmer would have gotten rid of the now deceived chickens.
Keri |
Nowisee
Registered user
Username: Nowisee
Post Number: 219
Registered: 5-2009
| | Posted on Tuesday, December 22, 2009 - 7:34 pm: | |
Sondra, I just read your parable! Then read your entire testimony--Wow! There were several points I can really relate to personally. Although our paths have been very different, there are many similarities. Years ago I knew I could not attend/support a church that taught the IJ, but until a few years ago, I really didn't have a full understanding of the depth and number of extremely false non-Biblical doctrines taught in the sda organization. How merciful God is in all our many wanderings!! |
Rider
Registered user
Username: Rider
Post Number: 7
Registered: 9-2009
| | Posted on Tuesday, December 22, 2009 - 8:09 pm: | |
Sondra, good parable, now you need to write the next chapter on how the farmer changes the ducks into chicken. It hard for us new chickens to to forget that we don,t need to waddle any more.
Rider |
Colleentinker
Registered user
Username: Colleentinker
Post Number: 10774
Registered: 12-2003
| | Posted on Tuesday, December 22, 2009 - 10:48 pm: | |
Sondra, I love the parable! Amazing, isn't it, how obvious it looks from "outside"...and how logical it all seemed from within. (Well, logical with accompanying cognitive dissonance...ha!)
Colleen |
Doc
Registered user
Username: Doc
Post Number: 498
Registered: 2-2003
| | Posted on Wednesday, December 23, 2009 - 12:37 am: | |
Thanks Sondra, very informative. I like this line: "The meetings, designed to illustrate why chickens were evil were ironically presented as meetings by chickens and for chickens."
How deceptive indeed.
Adrian |
8thday
Registered user
Username: 8thday
Post Number: 1398
Registered: 11-2007
| | Posted on Wednesday, December 23, 2009 - 6:31 am: | |
Yes Nowisee - God is SO patient and merciful. It amazes me. When I read Galatians I realize - we were asking for the curse and know that only by the grace of God are we now free from that.
And yes... many great ideas for chapter two. =)
Sondra |
Doc
Registered user
Username: Doc
Post Number: 499
Registered: 2-2003
| | Posted on Wednesday, December 23, 2009 - 12:18 pm: | |
Hey Sondra,
I just checked out the link to Mark Martin's site that you gave on your blog. I listened to the program on the Worldwide Church of God, the transformation they went through, and it is just totally amazing and moving. I recommend it, just to see the incredible things that God can do!
Adrian |
Nowisee
Registered user
Username: Nowisee
Post Number: 221
Registered: 5-2009
| | Posted on Thursday, December 24, 2009 - 12:31 am: | |
Yes, Doc, the documentary on the WWCG is so moving, it brought tears to my eyes and helped me see how relatively normal people can get caught up in false, cultic organizations. Every sda should see this!! |
Christo
Registered user
Username: Christo
Post Number: 194
Registered: 2-2008
| | Posted on Thursday, December 24, 2009 - 8:44 am: | |
I can't find that wwcg link.
Chris |
Doc
Registered user
Username: Doc
Post Number: 500
Registered: 2-2003
| | Posted on Thursday, December 24, 2009 - 11:44 am: | |
Chris,
Here it is:
http://www.exadventist.com/Home/Video/tabid/502/Default.aspx
Scroll down the page to the title Called to be Free.
Happy Christmas everyone!
Adrian |
Colleentinker
Registered user
Username: Colleentinker
Post Number: 10779
Registered: 12-2003
| | Posted on Saturday, December 26, 2009 - 6:55 pm: | |
That video is amazing. It's a great way to show people what we experienced, too...it just rings all those internal "bells" that resonate to similar stories of deception and fear. The difference, of course, is that the SDA Church is not abandoning its doctrines...
Colleen |
