| Author |
Message |
Jude the Obscure
| | Posted on Monday, May 15, 2000 - 12:50 pm: |     |
Hi Maryann,
You mentioned, "I used to ask why milk was okay but not water and juice. I was told that milk was a solid."
Tell her, "Yeah, and water is a solid too -- or even a vapor -- depending on its temperature."
Then ask her if she's ever heard of ICE.
If she says NO, then say your glass of Perrier's at dinner is a solid -- that is, solid ice served warm.
If she says YES, then tell her your glass of H2O is "a vapor served cold."
If she seems still a bit edgy about the acceptability of your glass of "vapor served cold," say it's sanctified 'cause a vapor is mentioned in the Bible.
If she asks -- Where? -- say, "pillar of cloud by day" (PCD), of course, of course. Psst! Let Mom in on the secret that the PCD relic has been kept in special cold storage at the South Pole* by an ages-old, unbroken chain of health-reform volunteers from "God's 6,000-year-old-SDA church."
If you're in a restaurant with Mom, look all around to see that no Roman Catholic Jesuite spies are eaves-dropping, then lean forward and in a conspiratorial stage whisper tell her the following:
PCD pieces are hacked off at great personal risk to the missionary volunteer and sold by either Worthington or Loma Linda Foods -- whichever is still in business -- under a specially sanctified licensing arrangement between Perrier's and Elder G.C. "Prexy Bob" Falkenberg** representing the highest voice of God on earth.
[*North Pole real estate was considered first but after great study deemed unacceptable 'cause it's the home of the marriage made in hell between Sandy Claws and the Abdomenal Snowman.]
[**"Prexy Bob" says, "Such a deal with the world" is sanctified 'cause I always donate my 'cut' to Roman Catholic Charities Ltd., a wholly owned subsidiary of the Inter-American Division of SADs {IADSAD, prounounced "I sad," for reasons I can't fathom}. "Prexy Bob" says, furthermore, "Harrumph! I know IADSAD is sanctified 'cause I personally am both CEO and CDO (Chief Distribution Officer) of IADSAD, meaning I'm the only one who really knows where all the MONEY goes! Heh, heh!"]
Think that'll help get you out of your (strawberry) jam?
Success to you, Maryann -- you've earned it if anybody has!
More Adam's ale to you,
Jude |
Jude the Obscure
| | Posted on Monday, May 15, 2000 - 10:57 pm: | |
ARTICLE IN ADVENTIST REVIEW MOCKS GOD
Just when you thought it was safe to go back into the jungle, that great scaly swamp monster neo-Adventism has reared its ugly head clear above the treeline yet again!
As you know, ìneoî is a word-part meaning ìnew.î And when you see ìneoî attached to the beginning of any kind of ìismî-word, it's time to consider yourself fairly warned.
For example, when ìneoî was attached to ìorthodoxyî in the forties and fifties, the resulting ìneoorthodoxyî was roundly blamed for evoking everything from a ìGod is deadî insultology to a ìreturn to the cave, manî petroglyphology.
Neo-Adventism may sound supercilious, but the too-lightly-termed ìhysterical Adventistsî are to be neither fooled nor mocked. However mistaken they may be in other ways, they rightly know neo-Adventism to be nothing more than the same old ìnewî Adventism warmed over.
According to them, it's the same T-Rex-gone-mad that had once reared its scaly head in the fifties fiendishly disguised under the bland, ìpeace, peaceî banner of QUESTIONS ON DOCTRINE.
Alas, these right-wing conservative-traditionalists had only too smugly assumed that the ìburning at the stakeî of Des Ford and other atrocities had sent neo-Adventism up in sulfurous smoke forever and ever.
Only to learn to their horror and hurt that three unheralded events had conspired to disgorge from earthís bowels that blood-slavering brute once more:
1. The untimely demise of G.C. ìPrexy Bobî Folkernbergís wheeler-dealer reign.
2. The overnight sprouting of ìLittle Hornî Jan Paulsen.
3. The resultant ìcorking-upî of right-wing, super-capitalist, ìCrocodile Smileî Jere Patzer.
And now ñ gasp! -- itís baaaaaack! N-n-n-neo-Adventism! Go ahead, say it. In time youíll learn to love it. Or else!
And so in what forms doth this gargoylic neo-Adventism now appear?
Legion!
But for purposes of this review, only one: A seemingly innocent but ìcamelís nose under the tentî article in the 27 April 2000 Adventist Review titled ìWhen We Disagree: How Our Cultures Shape Our Conversationsî by one Caleb Rosado, Ph.D., principal lecturer in sociology and head of the department of behavioral sciences at Newbold [SDA] College in Binfield, England.
The dead-giveaway terms ñ ìPh.D.,î ìsociology,î ìbehavioral sciences, î ìCollegeî ñ clue in the untrammeled ìhystericalsî: An R&H-level blow for neo-Adventism is nothing more than the old ìnew Adventismî running again amok! Yea verily, they told us so!
And they have a point.
For however much I detest the manifold heresies of ñ okay, Iíve had my fun, Iíll say it straight now ñ the ìhistorical Adventists,î they do have a spiritual rooting-in-the-ground that the neo-Adventists, in all their Sadducean arrogance and pride, are utterly incapable of fully grasping.
In other words, I agree with the ìhistoricalsî to some extent. And as you have no doubt divined by now, the term ìneo-Adventistsî is but a euphemism for, yes, the L-word -- eek! -- Liberals! Okay, now that Iíve said it, we can press on.
Letís look at Rosadoís REVIEW article:
His thesis: The ìchallengesî facing the 21st century SDA church ìwill dwarfî those of the 20th, though these current ones wonít disappear. Challenges are technological, logistical, financial-economic and cultural in nature.
He doesnít mention ìspiritualî at all.
His sole example of the apocalyptic horrors to come: ìtremendousî 3d-world membership growth.
But examples of ìpresent ëproblems,íî are abundant:
1. Congregationalism.
2. Liberal vs. conservative faculties.
3. Debates over ìinspiration of the Bibleî and ìmethods of Bible study.î
4. Ordination of women.
5. Historic vs. evangelical Adventism.
6. Race and gender relations.
7. Traditional vs. ìcelebrationî worship modes.
8. The ìshallow conversionsî of ìmembers who joined the church in groupsî ñ a rather arch and euphemistic way to describe and thus excuse the genocidal pogroms carried out by Seventh-day Adventists in Rwanda in 1994!
ìThe above issues, however, are actually surface symptoms of deeper-level decision systems out of which these controversies emerge,î writes Rosado.
Now, here it comes ñ the Rosado solution: ìAny hope that the chur4ch in the new century will be able to survive the destructive, self-serving forces within it can come only ñ from a human perspective ñ by looking beyond the differences, the attachments, the meanings that are simply the surface ripples of deep-level currents we call ëculture.í These deep cultural currents are the value systems from which surface conflicts over worship style, ordination, and congregation autonomy all emergeî (p.9).
Get it? The problems arenít spiritual. Theyíre cultural, humanistic. And humanistic problems demand humanistic solutions. Building new ìTowers of Babel,î or, better, ìTowers of Babbleî ñ in this case, sociobabble, a ìkickiní cousinî of psychobabble, only dumber.
And so therefore the solutions cannot come from the sovereign God, but from ñ I canít think of a way to say this euphemistically ñ so Iíll just say it: the sovereign human.
Iíll give short shrift to his method of choice. I will say this: Youíve heard of ecosystems -- havenít you? Ecosystems have to do with the environment, with food chains and ecological life cycles and the like.
Example one: Rabbit eats grass and eagle eats rabbit. Then eagle dies because it gets too old and dim of eye to compete with younger upstart eagles. So worms and beetles eat eagle carcass and smaller birds, such as robins and jays, eat worms and beetles.
Example two: Cow eats grass and human eats cow. Human dies and bacteria eat human. Bacteria assist in soil fertility enrichment and grass roots ìtake upî these soil nutrients and grow green for rabbits and cows to eat.
Now, if youíll just remember that much youíll know more than will the average dude about ecosystems. But my point is an analogy to ecosystems, known in some quarters as:
Egosystems!
Like the bright young debutante Liza Doolittle, youíve got it!
An egosystem is like an ecosystem. If you can apply the term, ìdog eat dog,î to the analogy of the ecosystem, you can understand an egosystem. Itís what St. Paul called the things ìof the fleshî or ìof the world.î Itís utterly opposed to and in conflict with to the things ìof the Spiritî or ìof God.î It is anathema to Jesus Christís New Commandment Law spoken with Godís own mouth on Mt. Blessings.
For Christís ìsystemî is so alien to societyís egosystems that the two can never be reconciled. One, Christís, is destined to displace the other, Satanís. For the first shall be last and the last first. The meek shall inherit the earth. The merciful shall obtain mercy "pressed down and running over" beyond all measure.
Those who hunger and thirst after righteousness will be so filled with Christís righteousness that they will never ever hunger and thirst again. And they will live forever into the bargain! For he that throws away his life for Christís sake shall ìfind it.î
Wonderful deep mysteries! Eternal paradoxes! Godís universe!
Rosadoís egosystem is unalterably opposed to it: Hereís a brief sketch of how his ìegosystemî works. The different levels are ìvalue systemsî called ìmemes,î which are linguistic devices coined to describe ìthe cultural magnets around which our ëstuffí clusters and our lives are aligned.î See God anywhere? Neither do I.
Meme 1 (the first and lowest level): Lives only to survive (the cat evades the hawk and eats the rat). Is reactive (ìYou touch my car, I break-up your face!î).
Meme 2: Reveres traditions, ìour peopleî as opposed to ìoutsidersî (Crips vs. Bloods). Depends on tribe (gang or church "fleshly family") for survival.
Meme 3: Reveres power (Iím the biggest, meanest, head-buster in the ghetto!). Loves self-glory (packs a piece that scares decent people). Lives for now.
Meme 4: Reveres power (Nazi ìder fuererî mentality) and authority (ìIím on the GC Presidentís side!î = "Na na na na NAH na! My dad can beat up your dad!").
Meme 5: Lives for material gain. (ìGo to Loma Linda school med., get MD, join lucrative group practice in Dubuque, get filthy rich and pay tithe to repay church and absolve self of selfishness).
Meme 6. Rosado admits that this Meme is ìhumanistic.î There is no sovereign God around to call the tune and pay the fiddler. In a sense, YOU become God, or like God in the Adamic sense, and you depend on ìthe social bondî thing as your philosophical underpinning (no transcendent theology in sight either).
Meme 7. Reveres natural processes of order and change. Natural theology fits well in here. God has lost his sovereign throne. God is sick, if not yet dead, and so you can begin to complete your Tower of Babble.
Meme 8. Tower of Babble complete. The supreme egoist now lives for ñ get this ñ wisdom! Having his own value system of ìharmony and wholism,î what need he of Ö of Ö anything at all of Godís? Reminds of Miltonís darkly handsome and muscular Lucifer hurled writhing from heaven to earth (hell to him) crying, ìíTis better to rule in hell than to serve in heaven!î Supreme chutzpah! Commits the worst sin in Danteís Inferno: human spiritual pride. Like Ephraim, heís inextricably wedded to his idols. Leave him alone.
To be fair, though, lest you be deceived, I need to mention that Rosado does sprinkle God-FLAVORED terminology throughout this REVIEW article.
Example: ìeternal life or eternal damnationî (p. 9), but he uses it in a totally ironic sense, casting an aspersion on those who are fighting within the denomination, when ñ if theyíd only pay attention to his MEMES ñ theyíd be ìdeveloping thoughtful, respectfulî ñ if God-snubbing ñ ìways of dealing with each other when we are in conflict ñ giving each other permission to grow and change and adapt.î
ìItíll work,î Rosado seems to be saying, ìjust as long as you keep that Yahweh out of the picture! Trust me, me, me!î
And all I, Jude, can do is to quote Isaiah (6:1-5 NIV):
^^^^^^^^^^^
In the year that King Uzziah died, I saw the Lord seated on a throne, high and exalted, and the train of his robe filled the temple. Above him were seraphs, each with six wings: With two wings they covered their faces, with two they covered their feet, and with two they were flying. And they were calling to one another:
ìHoly, holy, holy is the Lord Almighty;
the whole earth is full of his glory.î
ìWoe to me!î I cried. ìI am ruined! For I am a man of unclean lips, and I live among a people of unclean lips, and my eyes have seen the King, the Lord Almighty.î
^^^^^^^^^^^
This article constitutes a shameless mocking of our sovereign God.
Praising him alone,
Jude |
Maryann
| | Posted on Tuesday, May 16, 2000 - 12:35 am: | |
Hi Jude,
Where in the world do you get this stuff from? Does it just blast out your fingers? Or does it actually compute, then blast out your fingers? I'm just shaking my head.
What do you mean?
Hope you don't mind my attempts at humor (on another post), meant to cheer you. Those aren't attempts! They are very successful! Just remember, what goes around , comes around ;-)
I always found it interesting when I used to work around and break horses for the race track in Colo. Some horses liked to really run with a fairly loose rein. (loose rein on a race horse is tight on a pleasure horse). Other horses liked it best when the old bit had them about half pinched in the mouth and the rein was tight. Why? Because they needed something to pull them in so they could pull even harder and run faster. (and it gave them balance) That's me.
Thank you........Maryann |
Steve
| | Posted on Tuesday, May 16, 2000 - 7:24 pm: | |
Keeping "them" honest.
Review of the Primary Sabbath School lesson for Week 6, May 6th (which my children have recently gone through).
Title of the lesson = The Best Way to Wait for Jesus.
______________
The King says, "When you saw me hungry, thirsty, homeless, without clothes, sick, or in prison, you helped me."
The people who didn't remember helping the King asked, "When did we see you in need?"
"When you did something for any of my people," the King answers, "you did it for me."
[Two paragraphs later]
When you refused to help My people," the King says, "you refused to help Me."
. . . Jesus says doing good to one of His people is the same as doing good to Him.
______________
What is this lesson really trying to tell my children?
It can be interpreted two ways (well, probably more, but for now . . . )
Either the people who are "His people" are those who are part of His church (the SDA church) or all who need food, clothes, help in prison, drink, etc. are His people.
I brought this up to a Pastor at the La Sierra SDA church. He agreed with me that it is apparetntly trying to teach that we should help those in the SDA church. He said that they've issued apologies in the past for these types of errors, and that I should write them and solicit an apology. (Doesn't matter, the damage was done. The one giving my kids the lesson, takes all from the church without question.)
In the group I meet with, one individual (a very good person) disagreed and said that anyone who needs those things are His people, and that's the way it should be interpreted. Another individual in the group (another very good person) with children, said, in agreement with me, that it appeared to be showing that we should help SDA people, and that it was a misquote of Jesus' words.
Regardless of the interpretation, it misquotes Jesus. Jesus specifically states, to those that ministered, "Truly I say to you, to the extent that you did it to one of these brothers of Mine, even the least of them, you did it to Me" (Mt. 25:40)
For those that did not minister, the Bible actually says, "Truly I say to you, to the extent that you did not do it to one of the least of these, you did not do it to Me." (Mt. 25:45) In that place it NEVER says to help "My people".
I admit it's very subtle. But isn't that how we groom our children? Not too blatant, just enough to sound correct, yet enough to prepare them for later diversion from the actual intent of the Word.
For throughout the Gospels, Jesus says we are to minister to:
- One another (Our brothers and sisters)
- The needy (whether or not brothers or sisters)
- Our enemies (inside and outside the Body)
Of course these include those in the Body of Christ. But these also include those who are definitely outside the Body as well. We are not just to minister to those who love us, but for those who even are against us.
And, perhaps the most disturbing part of the lesson is the last line.
"When He comes back, He will give heaven to those who show their love for Him by helping others whenever they can."
The "message to young people"? You get to go to heaven if you help others whenever you can.
This has been a review of another "paraphrase" from the Seventh-day Adventist church.
Happy Circumcision,
Steve |
Plain Patti
| | Posted on Tuesday, May 16, 2000 - 7:53 pm: | |
Good points, STEVE!
Have you ever noticed that no SDA wants to reinstate the circumcision requirement? Yet the OT makes it clear that this was (also) to be a "sign" between the descendents of Abraham and God throughout their generations. |
Steve
| | Posted on Tuesday, May 16, 2000 - 9:44 pm: | |
Hi Patti,
Yes, there are PLENTY of laws that SDAs would never want to reestablish.
Some examples:
The obligation to break the neck of a firstborn donkey that is not redeemed (Exodus 13:13) SDA ranchers would have a real problem with this one. Especially because they'd have to slay another animal to keep the donkey.
The prohibition agains walking beyond permitted limits on the Sabbath (Exodus 16:29) Funny how SDAs like to go on LOOOOONG hikes in the mountains on Sabbath afternoons, I was one who did that.
The prohibition against cursing the leader of one's nation (Exodus 22:27) Bill Clinton would be happy if this were kept by us.
The stricture against eating milk and meat together (Exodus 34:26) Hmmmm, a glass of milk with meals that include meat is typical for my children.
The prohibition against making a fire on the Sabbath (Exodus 35:13) I'd have to stone my son to death whenever he goes out on a Pathfinder outing.
The prohibition against offering a sacrifice outside the sanctuary (Leviticus 17:3-4) If this were the case today, we could only make our offerings in church, rather than wherever we find someone in need.
The commandment classifying a Jewish (SDA) child resulting from an adulterous or incestuous union as a mamzer (bastard) and as forbidden ever to marry any other Jew (SDA) except another mamzer (bastard). (Deuteronomy 23:3)
There are many laws that could easily be applied today, but we don't do them because we realize that they were shadows leading the nation of Israel to Christ. They were not ends in themselves.
Unfortunately, SDAs (and the FORMER Worldwide Church of God, who originated in SDAism) have picked and chosen those laws that are easily applicable AND easily judged with human eyes.
That's probably the main problem, the ability to judge one another using outward acts rather than the inward person, or the heart of a person.
God Bless,
Steve
PS -- The laws listed above came from the book, Biblical Literacy, by Rabbi Joseph Telushkin, which includes a list of the 613 laws of the Torah. |
Jude the Obscure
| | Posted on Tuesday, May 16, 2000 - 10:21 pm: | |
NORTH AMERICAN ADVENTISTS CHANGE COLOR: WHITES NOW A MINORITY
Itís no secret that the SDA church has dramatically changed worldwide -- counting ten members in the Third World for every one in the First.
Less well known, however, is the change of color occurring in North America. Itís going from white to brown and black.
In fact, for the first time in history, whites now find themselves a minority of 47%.
Or so say the numbers.
The SDA General Conference (GC) reports that the percentage of white SDAs in North America has declined from 72% in 1980, to 60% in 1990, to 52% in 1996 (estimated), to 47% in 2000 (projected).
Concurrently non-whites bounded upward from 28% in 1980, to 40% in 1990, to 48% in 1996 (estimated), to 53% in 2000 (projected).
Population scientist Ronald Lawson of the Department of Urban Studies, Queens College, City University of New York, recently reported these statistical changes. He got the tell-tale numbers from the GC Office of Archives and Statistics.
But more striking yet was the tale told by the numbers from metropolitan New York.
There the non-white Adventist population has ballooned -- from a modest 1,817 (or 40% of the total) in 1945 to a whopping 33,433 (or 97% of the total) in 1996, half a century later.
At the same time, the white Adventist population shrank ñ from a robust 2,682 (or 60% of the total) in 1945 to a microscopic 947 (or 3% of the total) in 1996.
Interestingly enough, however, the rise in the Greater New York non-white SDA population has been largely limited to adults. Despite their gains, they're losing their own kids.
One illustration: "The hemorrhage in membership from these [non-white] youth is often considerable. Unlike their children, [non-white] parents continue to look toward their homeland and cultures [they are overwhelmingly immigrants from the Carribean region, such as Guyana and the Dominican Republic], so that cultural tensions between generations are often high. Several pastors have told of having to mediate with police after the children of immigrants, who had learned from peers that corporal punishment is considered child-abuse in New York, called the police after being beaten by parents. The latter had been taught 'back home,' where corporal punishment was used frequently, that the Bible endorses such methods of discipline." Thus writes Dr. Lawson (p.49).
Related to this ìnumbers game,î Dr. Lawson also reports with surprising candor on the church ìpower warsî in Greater New York City. Among the SDA conferences there, the whites fought for decades an ever more desperate, ever more futile battle first to hang on to their ìwhites onlyî conference. In the end they struggled simiply to cling with ragged and bloody fingernails the fleeting vestiges of their church administrative power and the sad trappings of their fading glory.
Titled ìWhen Immigrants Take Over: The Changing Face of Seventh-day Adventists in Metropolitan New York,î Dr. Lawsonís report appeared in the Spring 2000 issue of SPECTRUM: The Journal of the Association of Adventist Forums.
SPECTRUM is an unofficial SDA lay publication catering to what has been termed the ìintellectually liberal Adventist with the accompanying conservative lifestyle.î These are to be distinguished from the ìintellectually conservative Adventist with the accompanying liberal lifestyle.î
Jude |
Maryann
| | Posted on Wednesday, May 17, 2000 - 7:19 pm: | |
Hey Jude,
Do you have any more numbers? Like worldwide? Like the total decline percentage of SDA membership in America and the (in)cline of numbers outside of America? And so on and so on.
Thanks.......Maryann |
Jude the Obscure
| | Posted on Wednesday, May 17, 2000 - 7:21 pm: | |
WILL SDA GC SUE FAF FOR USING ìADVENTISTî IN NAME?
The Eternal Gospel Church of SDAs in Florida has lost its case.
What case?
On Thursday, 27 April 2000 in Miami, Florida U.S. District Judge James Lawrence King ìenjoinedî defendant pastor Raphael Perez and his West Palm Beach, Florida ìEternal Gospel Church of Seventh-day Adventistsî from using that name or any equivalent, such as SDA, in any radio broadcast, newspaper advertisement, brochure or other literature.
The story:
In 1991-92 defendant Perez with 40-50 others left the official SDA church in West Palm Beach, Florida. They formed their own unofficial church and called it the Eternal Gospel Church of Seventh-day Adventists. They began radio broadcasts criticizing the Roman Catholic Church (RCC). Made aware of the message in these broadcasts, a RCC Cardinal complained to the General Conference of SDA (GC).
When Perez and company attempted to gain admission for their unofficial SDA local church, two SDA conferences turned them down. Reason: Disobedient refusal to cease and desist criticism of the RCC in their radio broadcasts.
When Perezís Eternal Gospel Church of SDAs continued its anti-Catholic radio attacks, the GC sued for trademark infringement. The GC had previously ìtrademarkedî its product -- ìfaithî -- much as secular corporations, such as McDonalds, Microsoft and Disney trademark their products (hamburgers, software, and Mickey Mouse dolls) against infringement by competitors.
In court Perez (via his attorney) argued that Kinship, a Seventh-day Adventist gay support group, had won a similar case and hence legally continues to use the name ìSeventh-day Adventist.î Judge King disagreed, ruling that the Kinship court victory was ìdistinguishableî in that the term ëSeventh-day Adventistí as used by Kinship is ìgeneric.î To the contrary, the phrase Seventh-day Adventistî as Perezís church used it ìin their church name, church publications, radio broadcasts and newspaper advertisingî ñ was ìnot generic.î
Judeís opinion:
Judge King seems to be saying that Perezís ìEternal Gospelî church was using the trademarked name to sell a product that differed from the product of the ìofficial SDA brand.î Perezís faith is one that presumably attacks Catholics, whereas the ìofficial SDA brandî is one that doesnít. Thus ìEternal Gospelî was competing against ìthe mother corporationî in a way that Kinship is not. While I am not a lawyer, this distinction seems exceedingly problematic and one ripe for reversal if ìEternal Gospelî appeals to a higher court.
How might FAF be affected?
The easier answer: If they sue us theyíll lose, for two reasons:
(1) We are not using the whole name, but only a part, ìAdventist.î
(2) Our usage is more similar to that of Kinshipís than to that of ìEternal Gospelís.î
The harder answer: Donít be surprised if I report to you that we are receiving threatening letters from GC attorneys.
Remember Martin Luther.
In grace alone,
Juide |
Jude the Obscure
| | Posted on Wednesday, May 17, 2000 - 7:26 pm: | |
Source for above report: United States District Court, Southern District of Florida, Case No.98-2940-CIV-King. James Lawrence King Federal Justice Building and United States District Courthouse, Miami, Florida. James Lawrence King, U.S. District Judge, presiding.
Jude |
Steve
| | Posted on Wednesday, May 17, 2000 - 7:39 pm: | |
Juide (a slip on the ol' keyboard?)
Excellent comparison. Martin Luther. We have had many Martin Luther's in the SDA church. They've all been to the Diet of Worms (literally!).
Some include, Desmond Ford, Walter Rea, Dale Ratzlaff, Mark Martin, Sydney Cleveland, Clay Peck, Richard Fredericks, Geoffrey Paxton (an "outsider"), D. M. Canright, and MANY laypeople and clergy who are making their voices known via FAF and similar groups.
EGW could have been a Martin Luther, but she was shipped off to Australia and ended up slipping into same old theology (and same old abominable writing practices) she started with.
Perhaps the GC will "nail" FAF leaders, and others, to the door of the U. S. Supreme court eventually.
Until, and beyond, then, we shall keep on posting the 95+++ theses to this door for all the world (and GC officers) to see.
BTW, it's kinda funny, about the Eternal Gospel SDA church. They're actually preaching the SDA gospel, from what I've seen from them. Anti-Rome, Ten Commandments, 2300 days, etc.
It appears that the "Main" SDA church is trying to not let anybody blow its cover! If the truth be told, the GC doesn't want the sheep skin to slip lest the ravenous wolf underneath be shown for what it truly is.
Nailing Along,
Steve |
Steve
| | Posted on Wednesday, May 17, 2000 - 9:30 pm: | |
A couple items from the current Adventist Review.
Some letters have come in regarding the article in the Feb. 17, 2000 issue, by William Johnsson, "Where Are They Now?".
That article (in a box in the garage right now, so can't quickly dig it out) pointed out that Richard Frederick's church had not only gone to "Sundaykeeping" but had been losing members steadily following that change.
I've recently asked about the Damascus Road Community Church, and by those indications, they're doing just fine.
But reaction in this Review (May 18, 2000) includes the following:
By a "recent convert to Adventism" (notice he does not say, a recent convert to Christ), this writer says,
"Johnsson's article reminds us what can happen when we put selfishness and pride above the Word of God. Beyond that, the apostle Peter cautions us that no prophecy of Scripture is of any private interpretation. As members of the Adventist church we must always remember that Satan will do or say anything that gets us to take our eyes off the truth and believe a lie. [Notice Satan is the one leading Richard Fredericks and Clay Peck!] Knowing that many of these breakaway congregations eventually embrace Sundaykeeping is a clear warning sign that walking a separate path from the church will ultimately lead back to the broad road of destruction."
Also, notice that this writer equates "Sundaykeeping" with walking a separate path "from the church" [as opposed to "from Christ"] "to . . . destruction." Sundaykeeping leads to destruction. Not that these men or their congregations have embraced "Sundaykeeping", but that's the interpretation put on it. If they don't keep the seventh-day Sabbath, they MUST be "keeping" Sunday.
Another writer states, "It's a terrible ordeal when part of your church leaves for 'greener' pastures. I believe we're repeating the time of the judges, when everyone did what was right in their own eyes."
Hmmmmm, I guess finding Jesus Christ and His grace is equated with "greener" [meaning money] pastures, and doing what is right in "their own eyes." Gee, and I thought they were doing what was right according to the Word of God.
All three letters printed in the Review support Johnsson's perspective on Fredericks.
*** Patti, you'll like this next item in light of the comments above regarding circumcision. ***
In an article titled "Fasten Your Seat Belt, The Real Road Map to Freedom" the author, Pastor Sam McKee talks about the need for rules. In a section of the article called, "Science Catches Up With God" the author explains that circumcision has been scientifically validated as a healthful practice. He gives scientific evidence for the rite of circumcision. Although he says that "Circumcision was a specific sign of the relationship between the Jewish people and God." he never states that it is not a necessary practice for people today.
Am I reading this right? Is he promoting circumcision in the official SDA magazine? He leaves circumcision and goes onto the necessity of Law in life.
Overall, not really a gross, disturbing article. But CIRCUMCISION?! Without any mention of the fact that it is absolutely not needed in this day and age? (OK, for some it is necessary, and for some of us, I admit we have had our children circumcised for what we thought were health reasons. But to leave it as a command of God's, showing scientific proof for the way it was originally given by God, seems to support it as a practice for today.)
As the Worldwide Church of God has come to Jesus Christ, so it's Mother church (SDA) will tred the same path, in the reverse direction.
Happy Circumcision,
Steve |
Jude the Obscure
| | Posted on Thursday, May 18, 2000 - 4:34 pm: | |
SAFETY GLASSES ON?
Sitting down? Seat belt fastened? Glass of ice water in hand? Okaaaaay, read this:
"The world loving 'SDA' liberals will despise the 144,000 because they will perfectly reflect the image of Jesus, reprove sin, and kindly and lovingly give God's 3 angel's [sic] messages -- which angers [sic] Rome, and the 'Protestants' who worship the beast and his image."
--Pastor Jan Marcussen, [untitled newsletter], Mid May, Y2K [sic], P.O. Box 68, Thompsonville, IL 62890. Pastor Jan is the author of NATIONAL SUNDAY LAW (15 million copies in print as of 1999), a book which "kindly and lovingly" pours out the seven last plagues on all those Celebration Sabbath-keepers, naughty-no-no Roman Catholic Churchiacs, and all others who are not true members of "God's 6,000-year-old SDA church."
Jude |
Jude the Obscure
| | Posted on Thursday, May 18, 2000 - 4:42 pm: | |
Maryann,
Sorry I don't have any more relevant numbers. You could write to Dr. Lawson in care of SPECTRUM, though, and ask him. If anyone has them, he does. |
Jtree
| | Posted on Friday, May 19, 2000 - 4:57 am: | |
I think all Seventh Day Adventists should read this post, by Neil
Livingston.
GENERAL CONFERENCE LAWSUIT
Against the Third Angel's Message
But brother goeth to law with brother,
and that before the unbelievers.
I Corinthians 6:6.
Neil C. Livingston
PREFACE
On Thursday, April 27, 2000, U.S. Federal District judge, the Honorable
James Lawrence King, rendered his verdict in the "trademark" lawsuit
brought forward by the General Conference Corporation of Seventh-day
Adventists (the plaintiff) against Raphael Perez (the defendant). Judge
King's verdict ruled in favor of the General Conference. The complaint
was that Raphael Perez was using the regestered "trademark" in the name,
"Eternal Gospel Seventh-day Adventist Church."
The truth is that General Conference leadership themselves object to the
"Seventh-day" portion of the name! For the past forty years leadership
has nearly omitted completely the name Seventh-day" from all Corporate
Church institutions and publications. The single name "Adventist" is
used. Adventist Book Center, Adventist Media Center, Adventist Community
Center, etc. The name "Seventh-day" has been dropped from hospitals and
clinics. (See, "Portland Adventist Hospital," Portland, Oregon). Indeed,
the name Seventh-day has been dropped from the Church's welfare system.
Remember when the Church's welfare system was called SAWS, which stood
for the name, "Seventh-day Adventist Welfare System?" What is the title
of this entity today friend? ADRA, "Adventist Development and Relief
Agency."
How about the periodicals? We now have the Adventist Review. What was
the name of our Church paper in the days of the pioneers? Advent Review
and Sabbath Herald!
Today many churches and book centers have even dropped the name
"Adventist" and simply call themselves, Christian Book Center, or
Community Worship Center. A Seventh-day Adventist Church in Bothell,
Washington took the name "North Creek Fellowship." This group met in the
local Conference office until funds were raised to construct a church
building. Yet with all this evidence that General Conference leadership
hates the name "Seventh-day" themselves, they are more than willing to
spend over five million dollars (as in this Flordia case, no doubt from
tithe funds) to sue in worldly courts anyone who dares to use the name
"Seventh-day Adventist."
Although Scripture and the Spirit of Prophecy clearly forbids suing a
brother in worldly courts, the General Conference completely ignores the
counsel of Scripture and Ellen White. Leadership has voted to establish
a department of "General Conference Legal Affairs." Although this legal
department of the SDA Church has its own attorneys (in this Perez case
two attorneys, Robert W. Nixon, Lead in-house attorney, Associate
General Counsel, General Conference Legal Affairs, and Walter E..Carson,
Personal Attorney to Robert Folkenberg, General Conference Office of
General Counsel), leadership has chosen to employ a Roman Catholic
attorney, Vincent Ramik, (Diller, Ramik & Wight, P.C., Annandale,
Virginia) in all General Conference trademark cases.
The Seventh-day Adventist "in-house" attorney, Robert Nixon, has a staff
of six men in his office. One wonders if these men are paid from the
tithe funds. Seventh-day Adventist laymen will never know the answer to
this question until revealed in the books of Heaven.
It must again be noted that in the Raphael Perez case, not only the
judge, James King, was a Roman Catholic, but also the General Conference
attorney Vincent Ramik. Ramik was officially removed from the case
because he did not have a license to practice in the state of Flordia.
However, Ramik was allowed by judge King to stay in the court room and
counsel the General Conference attorneys. With the removal of Ramik, the
head attorney for the General Conference then became Jeffery Tew, a
Southern Baptist. Also present and representing the General Conference
was George Reid, head of the General Conference, "Biblical Research
Institute."
With this team of General Conference henchmen in place, the trial began
under the final judgement of a Roman Catholic. The issue was not really
about using the name "Seventh-day Adventist." As noted above, the
General Conference has long given up on the name themselves. Leadership
were after Perez because he placed pointed display adds discribing the
"third angel's message" in major newspapers and magazines. This brought
heat upon General Conference leadership, and is the real, underlying
reason for the lawsuit against Perez. Indeed, at the very beginning of
the trial, General Conference attorney's tried to establish that Perez
was a bigot, because he spoke out against the Roman Catholic Church, and
the Sunday-keeping harlot daughters of Babylon. To General Conference
leadership, Raphael Perez had the audacity, the insolence, to speak
against "Sunday keeping," calling it the "mark of the beast." This
accusation on the part of the so-called "brethren" of the General
Conference was thrown out by judge King. Only the "trademark" issue
would be allowed in the lawsuit.
A Religious Liberty Issue
The attorney for Raphael Perez entered a plea of Religious Liberty. The
name "Seventh-day Adventist" is a religious name, and should not have
been allowed a "Trademark" status. To Christians who accept the title
"Seventh-day Adventist," it simply means that they believe in the
"seventh day Sabbath," and the soon "Advent" of our Lord and Saviour,
Jesus Christ. It is most definitely a religious liberty issue. Is it not
strange that the General Conference has a Religious Liberty Department?
Yet before a court of unbelievers, the General Conference was standing
against religious liberty!
Biblical Statements Against Lawsuits
"Is there not one wise man among you that is able to judge between his
brethren," Paul asked, "so that you have to take a brother to law to
settle differences in the Church?" (1 Corinthians 6:5, paraphrase).
Before asking the question, Paul had stated, "I speak to your shame."
Why had Paul spoken to their shame? Because there was not one in the
Church wise enough to settle differences between brethren, or between
leadership and brethren!
"But brother goeth to law with brother," Paul lamented, "and that before
the unbelievers." (I Corinthians 6:6, emphasis supplied).
To take the problems between brethren and brethren, or between
leadership and brethren, before the judgement of worldly courts was and
is displeasing to God. To take a Seventh-day Adventist brother before a
worldly court, before a judge who is a member of the antichrist Church,
and then to hire a Roman Catholic attorney to prosecute this brother
against his religious liberty, totally flies in the face of Scripture
and the Spirit of Prophecy! Ellen White has much to say in this regard
-- which is the scope and thesis of this study.
"Now therefore there is utterly a fault among you, because ye go to law
one with another," Paul counseled, then asked: "Why do ye not rather
take wrong? why do ye not rather suffer yourselves to be defrauded?" (I
Corinthians 6:7, emphasis supplied).
Here Paul advises that, even if you are in the right, you should suffer
the loss, rather than take a brother to a worldly court. But in this
case, the Gereral Conference was wrong, yet insisted on proscuting a
brother to the utter end. "Stop!" Paul advises, "before there is utterly
a fault among you." But did the leading brethren heed Paul's counsel?
Did the General Conference stop their lawsuit against Raphael Perez?
"Nay, ye do wrong, and defraud," Paul concluded, "and that your
brethren." (I Corinthians 6:8, emphasis supplied).
No, the General Conference did not stop their lawsuit. They defrauded
their brother, Raphael Perez, by prosecuting him before a worldly court.
God is highly displeased. The following study will show, beyond
question, that God is displeased.
The title and sub-titles of this paper are not mine. They are taken
directly from a testimony published in Selected Messages, Book 3, page
299, titled, "Seventh-day Adventists and Lawsuits." The entire article
runs from page 299 through 303. The testimony is quoted here with
comments, with the exception of a letter addressed to a man who was
contemplating bringing a lawsuit against a brother, "Counsel to a
Believer Threatening Lawsuits," page 301, and a letter addressed to a
man bringing a lawsuit against the Review office, "A Lawsuit Against the
Publishing House," page 303. The reader is encouraged to look in
Selected Messages, Bk. 3, and read these letters also.
The subtitles to the following testimonies from the pen of inspiration
are wonderful and to the point. These clear subtitles before each
statement were inserted, either by the Compilers of the White Estate, or
Ellen G. White herself. It is most unfortunate that contemporary General
Conference leadership has not taken heed to these clear testimonies from
our Lord!
SPIRIT OF PROPHECY TESTIMONY AGAINST LAWSUITS
"Seventh_day Adventists and Lawsuits"
"Opening Church Difficulties to Unbelievers"
When troubles arise in the church we should not go for help to lawyers
not of our faith. God does not desire us to open church difficulties
before those who do not fear Him. He would not have us depend for help
on those who do not obey His requirements. Those who trust in such
counselors show that they have not faith in God. By their lack of faith
the Lord is greatly dishonored, and their course works great injury to
themselves. In appealing to unbelievers to settle difficulties in the
church they are biting and devouring one another, to be "consumed one of
another" (Gal. 5:15).
Ellen G. White, Selected Messages, Bk. 3, page 299. (emphasis
supplied).
"To lawyers not of our faith?" What would Ellen White say today about
the General Conference hiring Vincent Ramik, a Roman Catholic, to head
all Conference "Trademark" lawsuits? From the very same testimony she
would say, "Those who trust in such counselors show that they have not
faith in God." Further, from the same testimony she would state, "By
their lack of faith the Lord is greatly dishonored, and their course
works great injury to themselves." Then Ellen White would conclude her
testimony by stating, "In appealing to unbelievers to settle
difficulties in the church they are biting and devouring one another, to
be "consumed one of another." Strange how leadership obviously believe
that these testimonies do not apply to them.
"These men cast aside the counsel God has given, and do the very things
He has bidden them not to do," Ellen White commented. "They show that
they have chosen the world as their judge, and in heaven their names are
registered as one with unbelievers." Then she lamented, "Christ is
crucified afresh, and put to open shame." (ibid., Selected Messages, Bk.
3, page 299, emphasis supplied).
Again, these lawsuits by the General Conference against "believing"
brethren before "unbelievers" is displeasing to God. In this testimony
Ellen White then makes a most startling observation:
"Let these men know that God does not hear their prayers," Ellen White
stated. "They insult His holy name, and He will leave them to the
buffetings of Satan until they shall see their folly and seek the Lord
by confession of their sin." (ibid., Selected Messages, Bk. 3, page 299,
emphasis supplied).
"God does not hear their prayers?" Does this statement agree with
Scripture? Yes, indeed! "He that turneth away his ear from hearing the
law, even his prayer shall be abomination." (Proverbs 28:9). The
testimony states that anyone who brings a brother into a worldly court,
"They insult His holy name." Not only that, but God "will leave them to
the buffetings of Satan." Is Satan in control of leadership? How long
will this be? "Until they shall see their folly and seek the Lord by
confession of their sin," Ellen White replies. Since when did General
Conference leadership ever "see their folly" or when did they ever "seek
the Lord by confession of their sin," Leadership has always taken the
position that "we have nothing to confess."
"Matters connected with the church are to be kept within its own
borders," Ellen White continued. "If a Christian is abused, he is to
take it patiently; if defrauded, he is not to appeal to courts of
justice. Rather let him suffer loss and wrong." (ibid., Selected
Messages, Bk. 3, pages 299, 300, emphasis supplied).
"Matters connected with the Church." Notice that the statement does not
say matters in the chruch, but matters connected with the church. Note
that the testimony is directed to a Christian "is not to appeal to
courts of justice." Is it not strange how the General Conference
believes this testimpny does not aply to them? Look at it this way, dear
reader; If the General Conference leadership considers themselves to be
Christian, then this testimony, beyond question, also applies to them as
well as to laymen.
"God will deal with the unworthy church member [or leadership] who
defrauds his brother or the cause of God; the Christian need not contend
for his rights," Ellen White warned. "God will deal with the one who
violates these rights. `Vengeance is mine, I will repay, saith the
Lord.¥ Rom. 12:19." (ibid., Selected Messages, Bk. 3, page 300,
emphasis supplied).
Notice that God will deal with the "unworthy" church member or leaders
who defraud "the cause of God" by bringing lawsuits against Seventh-day
Adventists who are preaching the straight truth of the third angel's
message. And these lawsuits are brought before worldly courts and a
Roman Catholic judge. "God will deal with the one who violates these
rights." Raphael Perez was standing for his religious liberty rights,
standing against the "unworthy" leadership and attorneys of the General
Conference.
"An account is kept of all these matters, and for all the Lord declares
that He will avenge," Ellen White concluded. "He will bring every work
into judgment." (ibid., Selected Messages, Bk. 3, page 300, emphasis
supplied).
Notice that "for all" the Lord will avenge. Not just the lay Christian,
but the Lord will also avenge those in leadership who bring lawsuits
against a brother.
"Unsafe Counselors"
The interests of the cause of God are not to be committed to men who
have no connection with heaven. Those who are disloyal to God cannot be
safe counselors [leaders]. They have not that wisdom which comes from
above. They are not to be trusted to pass judgment in matters connected
with God's cause, matters upon which such great results depend. If we
follow their judgment, we shall surely be brought into very difficult
places, and shall retard the work of God.
ibid., Ellen G. White, Selected Messages, Bk. 3, page 300. (emphasis
supplied).
"Unsafe Counselors?" Remember, these titles are from the Ellen G. White
Estate! Obviously, Ellen White is here speaking of Church leadership,
unsafe counselors.. "The interests of the cause of God are not to be
committed" to these men of leadership "who have no connection with
heaven." She states further these men are "disloyal to God" and, "They
have not the wisdom that comes from above." Stronger yet she states that
these false leaders "are not to be trusted to pass judgment in matters
connected with God's cause." Yet still further Ellen White warns that,
"If we follow their judgment, we shall surely be brought into very
difficult places, and shall retard the work of God."
Those who are not connected with God are connected with the enemy of
God, and while they may be honest in the advice they give, they
themselves are blinded and deceived. Satan puts suggestions into the
mind and words into the mouth that are entirely contrary to the mind and
will of God. Thus he works through them to allure us into false paths.
He will mislead, entangle, an ruin us if he can.
ibid., Ellen G. White, Selected Messages, Bk. 3, page 300 (emphasis
supplied).
Ellen White states that those, laymen or leadership, "who are not
connected with God are connected with the enemy of God." When the
leadership bring a brother into a worldly court of law, they are being
led by Satan. It is just that simple, dear reader.
Strange Alters and Strange Fire
This subtitle is mine. I thought this testimony would fit nicely into
this context. By bringing a brother before a worldly court, the General
Conference leadership are playing with "strange fire." |
jtree
| | Posted on Friday, May 19, 2000 - 5:02 am: | |
When a Church refuses to obey the bible, and takes bretheren to court, is that church become a sewer church? |
jtree
| | Posted on Friday, May 19, 2000 - 5:06 am: | |
How to "overcome"... "the beast and his image"
Bible Readings for the Home Circle reads as follows on page 261:
Note: The beast 'which had the wound by a sword, and did live.' is the Papacy. That was a church dominating the civil power, a union of church and state, enforcing its religious dogmas by the civil power, by confiscation, imprisonment, and death. An image to this beast would be another ecclesiastical organization clothed with civil power--another union of church and state--to enforce religion by law.
Is the General Conference of Seventh-day Adventists an "ecclesiastical organization"? Is she "clothed with civil power" under present
Federal and State trademark law? Is she "another union of church and state--to enforce religion by law"? Does this by definition qualify her to be an "image of the beast"? Unless you are fully asleep, you must answer "YES" to all four questions. The latest SDA trademark lawsuit should finally convince everyone on this matter. |
Steve
| | Posted on Friday, May 19, 2000 - 10:00 am: | |
Jude and jtree,
Wow! If we SDAs really believe what our church has taught, then we must come to the same conclusion as jtree points out above.
The church that has abhorred all that Roman Catholicism has stood for has now joined hands with it's own Beast for "religious", political, and social power. The horn is growing.
Makes me shudder to think . . . OOPS! Can't be thinking, now, can we? |
Steve
| | Posted on Friday, May 19, 2000 - 10:05 am: | |
Jude and jtree,
Wow! If we SDAs really believe what our church has taught, then we must come to the same conclusion as jtree points out above.
The church that has abhorred all that Roman Catholicism has stood for has now joined hands with it's own Beast for "religious", political, and social power. The horn is growing.
Makes me shudder to think . . . OOPS! Can't be thinking, now, can we? |
Jude the Obscure
| | Posted on Friday, May 19, 2000 - 3:28 pm: | |
AFTER 156 YEARS: ADVENTISTS STILL GIVING FALSE ìMIDNIGHT CRYî
The following is a full-page, four-color ad on the back cover of February 2000 issue of the official SDA "Ministry: International Journal for Pastors."
The Voice of Prophecy Presents THE MIDNIGHT CRY with Kenneth Cox
CHICAGO NET 2000 --- September 9 to October 14
This is your opportunity to participate. You can hold an evangelistic meeting and Bible School in your own home! Materials to organize the meetings will be furnished FREE of charge. For information, phone the Voice of Prophecy (805) 955-7735.
^^^^^^^^^^
COMMENTARY
^^^^^^^^^^
Whatís ìthe midnight cryî?
It comes from Jesusí parable of the ten virgins (Matthew 25:1-13).
A wedding banquet was waiting for the bridegroom to arrive. Ten virgins took lamps that burned olive oil out to meet him. Five of them, the wise ones, carried jars of extra oil along. The other five were foolish and carried no extra oil. The bridegroom was so long in coming that the virgins all fell asleep. At midnight they were awakened by a cry in the middle of the night, ìHereís the bridegroom! Come out to meet him!î
(This is ìthe midnight cryî that is so famous in SDA church history.)
The cry woke up all ten virgins. They looked at their lamps and trimmed them. That is, they cut off the charred ends of the rag-wicks that had burned down, adjusted the length, and added more olive oil fuel. Only the five foolish virgins had no extra fuel.
ìGive us some of your oil!î they cried to the others. ìOur lamps are going out!î
ìNo,î came the reply, ìthere may not be enough for both us and you. Instead, go to those who sell oil and buy some for yourselves.î
They did. But while they were gone the bridegroom arrived, took the five with burning lamps into the wedding banquet, and shut the door.
Later the others came and knocked on the door: ìSir! Sir! Open the door for us!î
ìI tell you the truth,î the bridegroom replied, ìI donít know you.î
Jesus ended his parable with these words, which are the point of the story: ìTherefore keep watch, because you do not know the day or the hour.î
Adventist pioneers correctly interpreted the bridegroom as a figure or image of Jesus Christ. They correctly interpreted his coming as the Second Coming in the clouds. They correctly interpret the olive oil as the Holy Spirit.
But just about everything else in the story they misinterpret.
1. Adventists: The ten virgins are ìthe whole worldî ñ the object of Chicago-wide and, indeed, worldwide SDA ìevangelistic efforts.î
The truth: The ten are those who already have the gospel in the person of the Holy Spirit (the oil) in their hearts (lamps) and as such are already fully justified, sanctified, perfect and sinless.
2. The Adventists: The whole parable takes place OUTSIDE the kingdom of heaven, because, for them Isaiah was wrong. The whole earth IS NOT full of God's Glory. The earth DOES NOT belong to the Lord and the fullness thereof; it is still ruled by Satan and will not be ruled by God until the Second Coming.
The truth: This is an error so fundamental that if it were possible it would bottle the minds of the very elect. For, "The kingdom of God is within you." --Jesus in Luke 17:20,21.
3. The Adventists: ìYouíre not ready for Jesus to come. You need to ëdo somethingí beyond having the Holy Spirit in order to be ready. You need to do is to stop your Sunday worship -- the mark of the beast -- accept the Twenty-Seven Points of Fundamental Belief, and join the SDA Church (the remnant).
The truth: You need to do NOTHING OF THE SORT. All you need to do is, as the parable makes absolutely clear, is ìto watch.î And watching means making sure you retain the Holy Spirit in your life! Period. End of story.
For, as John whom Christ loved has written (Revelation 22:18-20 NIV),
^^^^^^^^^^^
I warn everyone who hears the words of the prophecy of this book [Revelation of JESUS, not Moses]: If anyone adds anything to them, God will add to him the plagues described in this book. And if anyone takes words away from this book of prophecy, God will take away from him his share in the tree of life and in the holy city, which are described in this book.
He who testifies to these things says, ìYes, I am coming soon.î
Amen, Come, Lord Jesus.
^^^^^^^^^^^
Jude |
jtree
| | Posted on Friday, May 19, 2000 - 10:56 pm: | |
A CRITICAL DECISION:
If you agree with the "General Conference Trademark Policy," you receive "the [trade]mark of the beast" in your forehead. If you disagree with this papal technique of control, and yet lend your support to it by your tithes, offerings, and church membership, you receive "the [trade]mark of the beast" in your hand. Before God pronounces your final destiny (by either blotting out your name or your sins from the records of Heaven), you must have the opportunity to make an intelligent decision in this controversy between the policies of men and "the commandments of God." You see, my friend, there is a "corporate accountability" in the judgment which can not be safely ignored. |
Steve
| | Posted on Saturday, May 20, 2000 - 5:51 pm: | |
In light of jtree's post above,
I've always been taught that the Little Horn will seek to change times and laws. We must be careful not to recieve the mark of the beast by worshipping on a day "instituted" by man (even though God instituted the first day of the week at Creation.)
According to Romans 14:5, one person can regard one day above the other days. If this is true, then it is completely within the right of the Believer to set Sunday aside from the other days.
But then comes the Holy, Catholic and Apostolic Seventh-day Adventist church and says, You mustn't worship on Sunday, you must keep Saturnday. You MUST.
If I understand Romans 14:5 correctly, then according to the SDA church's own teachings, IT has now become the Little Horn power. It is attempting to change times of worship that good Christian people have set aside. It is attempting to change times and laws.
The Seventh-day Adventist church is the Beast, according to it's own teachings on Daniel, Revelation, IN LIGHT OF Romans 14.
Who should we be fleeing now? |
Maryann
| | Posted on Saturday, May 20, 2000 - 6:39 pm: | |
Hi Steve,
Food for thought! Great concept! That was good. Besides that I liked that!
BTW, how was your "happy sabbath"?
Maryann |
jtree
| | Posted on Sunday, May 21, 2000 - 4:23 am: | |
Mrs White condemns the General conference law suits
Selected Messages Book 3, page 299, paragraph 1
Chapter Title: Seventh-day Adventists and Lawsuits
Opening Church Difficulties to Unbelievers.-- When troubles arise in the church we should not go for help to lawyers not of our faith. God does not desire us to open church difficulties before those who do not fear Him. He would not have us depend for help on those who do not obey His
requirements. Those who trust in such counselors show that they have not faith in God. By their lack of faith the Lord is greatly dishonored, and
their course works great injury to themselves. In appealing to unbelievers to settle difficulties in the church they are biting and devouring one another, to be "consumed one of another" (Gal. 5:15).
Selected Messages Book 3, page 299, paragraph 2
Chapter Title: Seventh-day Adventists and Lawsuits
These men cast aside the counsel God has given, and do the very things He has bidden them not to do. They show that they have chosen the world
as their judge, and in heaven their names are registered as one with unbelievers. Christ is crucified afresh, and put to open shame. LET
THESE MEN KNOW THAT GOD DOES NOT HEAR THEIR PRAYERS. They insult His holy name, and He will leave them to the buffetings of Satan until they
shall see their folly and seek the Lord by confession of their sin.
Selected Messages Book 3, page 299, paragraph 3
Chapter Title: Seventh-day Adventists and Lawsuits
Matters connected with the church are to be kept
300 within its own borders. If a Christian is abused, he is to take it patiently; if defrauded, he is not to appeal to courts of justice.
Rather let him suffer loss and wrong.
Selected Messages Book 3, page 300, paragraph 1
Chapter Title: Seventh-day Adventists and Lawsuits
God will deal with the unworthy church member who defrauds his brother or the cause of God; the Christian need not contend for his rights. God
will deal with the one who violates these rights. "Vengeance is mine, I will repay, saith the Lord." Rom. 12:19. An account is kept of all these
matters, and for all the Lord declares that He will avenge. He will bring every work into judgment.
Selected Messages Book 3, page 300, paragraph 2
Chapter Title: Seventh-day Adventists and Lawsuits
Unsafe Counselors The interests of the cause of God are not to be committed to men who have no connection with heaven. Those who are disloyal to God cannot be safe counselors. They have not that wisdom which comes from above. They are not to be trusted to pass judgment in matters connected with God's cause, matters upon which such great results depend. If we follow their judgment, we shall surely be brought into very difficult places, and
shall retard the work of God.
Selected Messages Book 3, page 300, paragraph 3
Chapter Title: Seventh-day Adventists and Lawsuits
Those who are not connected with God are connected with the enemy of God, and while they may be honest in the advice they give, they themselves are blinded and deceived. Satan puts suggestions into the mind and words into the mouth that are entirely contrary to the mind and will of God. Thus he works through them to allure us into false paths. He will mislead, entangle, and ruin us if he can.
Selected Messages Book 3, page 300, paragraph 4
Chapter Title: Seventh-day Adventists and Lawsuits
Anciently it was a great sin for the people of God to give themselves away to the enemy, and open before them either their perplexity or their
prosperity. Under the ancient economy it was a sin to offer sacrifice upon the wrong altar. It was a sin to offer incense kindled by the wrong fire.
Selected Messages Book 3, page 300, paragraph 5
Chapter Title: Seventh-day Adventists and Lawsuits
We are in danger of mingling the sacred and the common. The holy fire from God is to be used in our efforts. The true altar is Christ; the true fire is the Holy
301
Spirit. This is our inspiration. It is only as the Holy Spirit leads and guides a man that he is a safe counselor. If we turn aside from God and
from His chosen ones to inquire at strange altars we shall be answered according to our works.
Selected Messages Book 3, page 301, paragraph 1
Chapter Title: Seventh-day Adventists and Lawsuits
Let us show perfect trust in our Leader. Let us seek wisdom from the Fountain of wisdom. In every perplexing or trying situation, let God's people agree as touching the thing they desire, and then let them unite in offering prayer to God, and persevere in asking for the help they need. We are to acknowledge God in all our counsel, and when we ask of Him, we are to believe that we receive the very blessings sought.--Undated Manuscript 112.
Selected Messages Book 3, page 302, paragraph 2
Chapter Title: Seventh-day Adventists and Lawsuits
The Very Thing God Told Them Not to Do.--I have written largely in regard to Christians who believe the truth placing their cases in courts
of law to obtain redress. In doing this, they are biting and devouring one another in every sense of the word, "to be consumed one of another."
They cast aside the inspired counsel God has given, and in the face of the message He gives they do the very thing He has told them not to do.
Such men may as well stop praying to God, for He will not hear their prayers. They insult Jehovah, and He will leave them to become the subjects of Satan until they shall see their folly and seek the Lord by confession of their sins. . . .
Selected Messages Book 3, page 302, paragraph 3
Chapter Title: Seventh-day Adventists and Lawsuits
What Appeals to the Courts Reveal.--The world and unconverted church members are in sympathy. Some when God reproves them for wanting their own way, make the world their confidence, and bring church matters before the world for decision. Then there is collision and strife, and Christ is crucified afresh, and put to open shame. Those church members who appeal to the courts of the world show that they have chosen the world as their judge, and their names are registered in 303
heaven as one with unbelievers. How eagerly the world seizes the statements of those who betray sacred trusts!
Selected Messages Book 3, page 303, paragraph 1
Chapter Title: Seventh-day Adventists and Lawsuits
This action, of appealing to human courts, never before entered into by Seventh-day Adventists, has now been done. God has permitted this that you who have been deceived may understand what power is controlling those who have had entrusted to them great responsibilities. Where are God's sentinels? Where are the men who will stand shoulder to shoulder, heart to heart, with the truth, present truth for this time, in possession of the heart?--Manuscript 64, 1898.
Selected Messages Book 3, page 303, paragraph 3
Chapter Title: Seventh-day Adventists and Lawsuits
Lawyers and Laodiceans To lean upon the arm of the law is a disgrace to Christians; yet this evil has been brought in and cherished among the Lord's chosen people.
Worldly principles have been stealthily introduced, until in practice many of our workers are becoming like the Laodiceans--half-hearted,
because so much dependence is placed on lawyers and legal documents and agreements. Such a condition of things is abhorrent to God.--Manuscript 128, 1903.
Testimonies for the Church Volume Eight, page 69, paragraph 1
Chapter Title: Counsels Often Repeated
Look to God for Help
Cooranbong, N. S. W., June 8, 1898.
There are times when the truth must be spoken, whether men will hear or whether they will forbear. The Lord is greatly dishonored when those who profess to believe the truth fail to harmonize among themselves, and make appeals to lawyers. Will you study the word of God and heed the
instruction given on this point? The interests of the cause of God are not to be committed to men who have no connection with heaven.
Testimonies for the Church Volume Eight, page 69, paragraph 2
Chapter Title: Counsels Often Repeated
Matters have been presented before me that have filled my soul with keen anguish. I saw men linking up arm in arm with lawyers, but God was not in their company. Having many ideas regarding the work, they go to the lawyers for help to carry out their plans. I am commissioned to say to
such that they are not moving under the inspiration of the Spirit of God.
Testimonies for the Church Volume Eight, page 69, paragraph 3
Chapter Title: Counsels Often Repeated
"Is it not because there is not a God in Israel, that ye go to inquire of Baal-zebub the god of Ekron?" 2 Kings 1:3. Men in responsible
positions are uniting with those in the church and out of the church, whose counsel is misleading. Is it necessary for the Lord to come to you with a rod to show you that you need a higher experience before you can be fitted for connection with the family above? Will you link up with men who have a faculty for accusing, for thinking and speaking evil of the things that God approves? In the name of the Lord I tell you that you need clearer discernment and clearer spiritual eyesight.
Testimonies for the Church Volume Eight, page 69, paragraph 2
Chapter Title: Counsels Often Repeated
Matters have been presented before me that have filled my soul with keen anguish. I saw men linking up arm in arm with lawyers, but God was notin their company. Having many ideas regarding the work, they go to the lawyers for help to carry out their plans. I am commissioned to say to such that they are not moving under the inspiration of the Spirit of God.
Special Testimony for Ministers and Workers. -- No. 11
Matters have been presented before me that have filled my soul with keen anguish. I saw men linking up arm in arm with lawyers; but God was not in their company. Having many ideas regarding the work, they go to the lawyers for help to carry out their plans. I am commissioned to say to such that you are not moving under the inspiration of the Spirit of God.
Special Testimony for Ministers and Workers. -- No. 11
"Is it not because there is not a God in Israel, that ye go to inquire of Baal-zebub the god of Ekron?" Men in responsible positions are uniting with those in the church and out of the church, whose counsel is misleading. Is it necessary for the Lord to come to you with a rod to show you that you need a higher experience before you can be fitted for connection with the family above? Will you link up with men who have a faculty for accusing, and thinking and speaking evil of the things that God approves? In the name of the Lord, I tell you that you need clearer discernment and spiritual eyesight.
Testimonies for the Church Containing Messages of Warning and, page 32,
paragraph 2
Chapter Title: The Warning Repeated
St. Helena, Cal., July 15, 1905.
I have a warning for our people in all our churches. For years messages have been coming to the leader of our medical missionary work, telling
him that he was not carrying that work forward in straight lines. He mingles with it his own spirit, and brings in ingenious inventions to do a work that God has forbidden His denominated people to do. There is a work being carried on through lawyers that is not after the divine similitude. This is manifest in efforts to get possession of property that he does not and should not control.
Special Testimony to the Brethren in Battle Creek, page 1, paragraph 2
Matters have been presented before me that have filled my soul with keen anguish. I saw men linking up arm in arm with layers; but God was not in their company. Having many ideas regarding the work, they go to the lawyers for help to carry out their plans. I am commissioned to say to such that you are not moving under the inspiration of the Spirit of God.
Special Testimony to the Brethren in Battle Creek, page 1, paragraph 3
"Is it not because there is not a God in Israel, that ye go to inquire of Baal-zebub the god of Ekron?" Men in responsible positions are
uniting with those in the church and out of the church, whose counsel is misleading. Is it necessary for the Lord to come to you with a rod to show you that you need a higher experience before you can be fitted for connection with the family above? Will you link up with men who have a
faculty for accusing and thinking and speaking evil of the things that God 2 approves? In the name of the Lord, I tell you that you need clearer
discernment and spiritual eyesight. |
Colleentinker
| | Posted on Sunday, May 21, 2000 - 6:00 pm: | |
Excellent points, jtree and Jude. I guess it shouldn't surprise us that the farther we move away from that "veil" that covered our hearts, the more insidious and pervasive the deception of our past appears.
The deception, I've come to believe, began with a perversion of the truth about Jesus and his grace and grew to become a pretty massive deception that has confused thousands of church members. The deception begins with a departure from Christian orthodoxy and mushrooms into political and financial agendas which are hidden from the earnest members sitting in their pews every Sabbath.
Knowing how deeply and subtly we were deceived, we must not become arrogant about now knowing the truth. I believe we are all still vulnerable to deception, and it's only by the grace of God that we receive discernment and are protected from new distractions from truth.
I pray for us all, that we will keep Christ and the cross at the center of our focus and the center of our experience, and I pray that we will be protected from deception and granted discernment.
God is faithful. Praise him for calling us to himself!
Colleen |
Steve
| | Posted on Wednesday, May 31, 2000 - 8:47 pm: | |
SDA church goes for more than a corrupt Bible AND a direct marketing attempt towards the Former Adventist Fellowship:
Newsflash #1: The SDA church will not be satisfied with a corrup version of the Bible (The "Clear" Word). They are now publishing a SDAized version of the Pilgrim's Probress by John Bunyan.
In the recent Camp Meeting version of the Adventist Book Center catalog, on page 3, you will find The New Amplified Pilgrim's Progress, which includes, ". . . gentle Seventh-day Adventist overtones and scores of adapted quotations and concepts from the Spirit of Prophecy."
Gentle? GENTLE?! Is corrupting excellent Christian writings gentle?
Newsflash #2: Adventist Heritage Library CD-ROM, on page 9 of the same catalog offers ". . . more than 80 classic writings from the Adventist pioneers and the Spirit of Prophecy. . . A must have for new members, existing members, FORMER members, or any serious Bible student."
Beware fellow FAFers, they're after us. And they're not satisfied with just calling us "former members", but "serious Bible student[s]." It is another attempt of the Beast to bring us back under it's subtle deception. After all, they appeal to our desire to be "serious Bible student[s]." How deceptive can you get? The CD ROM doesn's seem to be a Bible study at all, but writings of the SDA pioneers. Yet they appeal to those who want to know the Bible better.
Look for these, and other deceptions, at your local Seventh-day Adventist Book Center. |
|
