| Author | Message | ||
| Tony |
Good News for "7th day Adventists" This letter is written in Christian love alone. Its purpose and objective is to share with you how I personally have found amazing joy, peace, hope and assurance in heaven, and how you can experience the same glorious surety, excitement and peace with me today. Reader, are you hungering for true freedom, joy, peace and truth? Are you hungering for a spark of fire to come alive in your heart? Are you thirsting to be ready for Jesus' coming? Do you feel like you have been in a spiritual depression, desert or sleep? Have you been under a burden? Do you fear not being saved today? Please don't despair as I have "Good News" for you. And Good News means assurance! The assurance of peace, joy and salvation can be yours today! Being born into a "denomination" won't save anyone and automatically bring him or her into the kingdom of God. Jesus said we have to be "born again" by the Holy Spirit. [John 3:3] It's a Spiritual rebirth. It's Jesus that saves you. It is what He has done! It is never what an earthly "denomination" has done or what you will ever do. You are only saved through Jesus' grace and mercy, totally as a free gift and never through your own works. [Ephesians 2:8] For it is by grace you have been saved, through faith--and this not from yourselves, it is the gift of God-- [Ephesians 2:9] NOT BY WORKSÖ [Titus 3:5] he saved us, not because of righteous things we had done, but because of his mercy. He saved us through the washing of rebirth and renewal by the Holy Spirit, The grace and mercy of God cannot be purchased, worked for, or earned. Your works, obedience, good deeds and Sabbath keeping should come as a loving response and result of faith of already having been saved and not a means to be saved. And grace means undeserved and unmerited favour! You will never accumulate enough points, merit or favour through your own works to be saved, but only ever through Jesus' works and perfect life of 33 and a half years. You can never be saved through your own service, yet once you are saved you will serve out of love for Jesus. Your own works should be the "fruit" of salvation and never the "root" of salvation. These are the works, or better the fruits of the Holy Spirit. These are not works done to earn salvation but done in order to become more like Christ and because you love Him. Producing works in your own life never means that you can earn your way into God's kingdom, but it does mean that how you live your Christian life is important. But this should only come with pure delight out of deep love for Jesus. Your own works should never be the ground, but the result of faith. The grace of God in Christ is the foundation of your hope, and that grace will be manifested in obedience as a result. And the judgement is a checking of your life and works NOT to see if you have accumulated enough points or credit through your works to earn salvation, but to ascertain the genuineness of your faith. Many have misunderstood the "Investigative Judgement". Satan has twisted the "IJ" to mean that your works save you which is not a Biblical teaching. The "IJ" is not for the lost but for the saved only. Not to check if enough points have been accumulated to save yourself, but to verify that your faith is genuine and sincere. When it's true faith, it then passes the test. And if you have accepted Jesus into your heart and allow Him to guide your life, you do not need to fear the "IJ". The "IJ" is NOT another hurdle you have to fear to overcome. It is in fact "Good News" because when you truly have Jesus in your life as your Saviour and controlling your life, then your life and works will pass the test of sincere faith. The person who does not produce the fruitage and love of faith is condemned, but the person who produces the fruitage and works of faith is justified. Their genuine faith passes the test. Obedience and works is not a question of working your way into heaven; it is a question of the sincerity of your faith. True love and genuine faith for Jesus leads to works and obedience in your own life just as surely as day follows night. But these works and good deeds come naturally out of true faith in Jesus because the person has already been saved and given a new heart and nature and not to be saved. Salvation is a free gift of grace, but once you have accepted this gift and are "born again" by the Holy Spirit, there will be a natural response of obedience and works which shows the sincerity and genuineness of your faith. The free grace of Christ does not give you permission to sin, but where God truly dwells in a person's life whom have been truly "born again" and saved, there exists a zeal urging and impelling a person to good works. These works are a result of already going to heaven and not as a means of getting into heaven. Paul in Romans 3:28 talks about a person's approach to Jesus before they get saved in order to get saved by faith alone. James says in James 2:24 that as a result of true faith and already having been saved you will produce works and deeds out of love. Never to be saved, but because you have already been saved by true faith in Jesus Christ. True faith will be manifested by a holy life. So James does not say we need to work to be saved. He says that true Biblical faith in God will automatically and naturally produce works as a result of having already been saved. If anyone claims to be saved and produces no works or fruit, their faith is not real, but is false and dead! Nothing less than a "faith which worketh by love" will be accepted. [KJV Galatians 5:6] Also the demonstration of works in James is not works done to be witnessed by God but works done before men. James says in James 2:18 "I will show thee my faith by my works."[KJV] He is talking about demonstrating our true faith and works before humans and not before God. Paul is talking about justification, your initial approach to God, while James is talking about your life after you have accepted Christ as your personal Saviour. Paul talks about your approach to salvation; and James talks what happens after salvation. Paul talks about the "root", and James talks about the "fruit" of salvation. Paul and James when rightly understood are in perfect harmony with each other. True faith is the acceptance and admission with a humble heart that there is nothing you can do towards your salvation through your own works and life. [Matthew 18:3-4] The Jews of Jesus' day refused heaven due to their pride in accepting God's righteousness. [Romans 10:3] They sought to get their righteousness through their own works and lives and refused to look at or accept Jesus' perfect works and sinless life. Salvation by human works is not taught in Gods Word and is a doctrine and teaching of Satan! Please my dear brother/sister; don't make the same mistake the Jews did and try to rely on your salvation through your own life and works. Sadly, many today seek by their own works to obtain pardon, peace and salvation and don't place their eyes fully on Jesus. I personally keep the Sabbath and read my Bible and in co-operation with the Holy Spirit produce fruit in my life because I lovingly want to and not because I feel like I have to. By having a deep and loving relationship with Jesus and accepting His life of righteousness, you will want to walk in His light out of love and freedom. You will walk in His path because you freely choose to out of love and not because you have to. If you are torturing yourself to be saved and justified through your own works and life or through the rules and regulations of a "denomination", simply place your eyes instead on Jesus' works and life. This will result in true peace, love, excitement and joy in your life that is amazing. It's by falling in love with Jesus first, and seeking His kingdom and righteousness that will bring you peaceful freedom. [Mat 6:33] True joy, peace and hope is only found by accepting His free gift of heaven. You will never find any peace, rest, joy and assurance in heaven unless you fully place your eyes on Jesus and His life of righteousness and by turning away from your own works to be saved. Sadly, Satan of course will attack God's people with his lies, and has as a result infiltrated significant sections of the "7th Day Adventist denomination" with his false doctrine of "perfectionism" that teaches that salvation is achieved through your own life and works. And if anyone wants to be saved by his or her own life and works, they better have been born perfect and die perfect. Nothing less will ever do! But because we are born sinners we need a Saviour and need to be "born again" by the Holy Spirit. [Psalms 51:5, 58:3, Isaiah 48:8] Unfortunately there are many today that have only been born into a "denomination" and have never been "born again" by the Holy Spirit. And trying to achieve perfection and salvation by our own works will never be good enough. Even if possible for us to live from this day onwards perfect and sinless, we would still miss out on heaven if we rely on our own righteousness and lives to be saved. And all the works and ceremonies of any "denomination" are all powerless to atone for sin. Only through Jesus' death and works on our behalf during His life will bring salvation and entrance into heaven. Simply place your eyes fully on Jesus' sinless life and death and accept His works to be saved. You cannot establish any merit whatsoever before God by your own works and law keeping. But once you accept Jesus' perfect life of perfect law keeping to cover your own sinful life, then you can be counted as perfect and righteous as God Himself because you are then clothed with Jesus and looked upon as if you had never sinned. God the Father will "legally" see Jesus in your place when you humbly accept Jesus' sinless life of righteousness and works to cover your filthy rags. [Isaiah 64:6, Philippians 3:9] When you fully trust Jesus, His righteousness and His work of redemption is then credited to you, and you can then have total assurance in salvation and heaven. [Romans 4] Christ is the sinner's righteousness and your only hope of salvation. Turn to Christ alone for salvation and He will give you assurance that your sins are washed away and that He has brought you into His heavenly kingdom. Ellen G White says in "1 Selected Messages, page 367": "The law demands righteousness, and this the sinner owes to the law; but he incapable of rendering it. The only way in which he can attain to righteousness is through faith. By faith he can bring to God the merits of Christ, and the Lord places the obedience of His Son to the sinner's account. Christ's righteousness is accepted in place of man's failure, and God receives, pardons justifies Ö treats him just as though he were righteous Ö this is how faith is accounted righteous." "Every soul may say," wrote Ellen White, that "by His [Christ's] perfect obedience He has satisfied the claims of the law, and my only hope is found in looking to Him as my substitute and surety, who obeyed the law perfectly for me. By faith in His merits I am free from the condemnation of the law. He clothes me with His righteousness, which answers all the demands of the law. I am complete in Him who brings in everlasting righteousness. He presents me to God in the spotless garment of which no thread was woven by any human agent.'" [Ellen White, 1 Selected Messages, page 396] Ellen G White also says in "Steps to Christ, page 62": "It was possible for Adam before the fall to form a righteous character by obedience to the law. But he failed to do this, and because of his sin our natures are fallen and we cannot make ourselves righteous. Since we are sinful, unholy, we cannot perfectly obey the holy law. We have no righteousness of our own with which to meet the claims of the law of GodÖ If you give your life to Him, and accept Him as your Saviour, then sinful as your life may have been, for His sake you are accounted as righteous. Christ's character stands in place of your character, and you are accepted before God as if you had not sinned." Nowhere in all her writings does Ellen G White say that your works will save you! When she does talk about works, it is always in the context of works as a result of salvation and out of love for Jesus because you are saved and never to be saved. The true Christian knows that only through Christ is righteousness credited by faith. This person then forsakes the path of self-justification and instead accepts the righteousness that flows from Christ. They are then freed from legalism [trying to earn salvation by works] to be free for the service of love. And works of freedom and salvation must be tempered and controlled by love. True freedom is never found in man made religion or human works, but only found in Jesus' death and His works. The great doctrine of justification by faith alone, so clearly taught in the Bible has been almost wholly lost sight of; and in its place the principle of not trusting in Jesus' works, but on human works for salvation is becoming the norm. It is Jesus who gives you, by faith, that righteousness which by grace alone justifies to eternal life. There are 2 religions in the world today. The false, man made religion is that which men have invented and is a doctrine of Satan! And it teaches that a person can save themselves by ceremonies, rules, regulations and their own obedience and good works. The other is the one that is revealed in the Bible and is the doctrine of Jesus Christ. This true and pure religion teaches that salvation is not through our own deeds and works but is solely through the life of righteousness that comes from Jesus and through His perfect deeds and works. This true religion teaches that you look for salvation solely from the free grace of God. It teaches that you must take your eyes of yourself and your own works and place them fully on Jesus and His works and perfect life of 33 and a half years. This true religion is seated in the heart and extends God's law to the thoughts as well as to the words and actions. It produces a holy heart and teaches that we are only made righteous through Jesus and His works and obedience. [2 Corinthians 5:21, Romans 5:17,19] Oh, how amazing the unspeakable greatness of that exchange. The Sinless One is condemned, and those who are guilty go free! The Blessing bears the curse, and the cursed is brought into blessing. The Innocent One is condemned, and the sinner is acquitted. Jesus swaps places with you fully so you may stand righteous and perfect as if you had never sinned. He takes away your filthy rags and places His sinless white robe of righteousness and perfection on you. [Colossians 1:28] Christ was treated as we deserve, that we might be treated as He deserves. Jesus spent 33 and a half years on this earth to save you! It now only takes you 2 minutes to be saved and to surrender your heart to Jesus and ask Him to forgive you and to cover you with His robe of righteousness and perfection. It does not take a life long struggle to be saved! It only takes you a couple of minutes to be "born again" by asking Jesus into your heart to save and forgive you and to credit His perfect life and death to you. Jesus is not interested in condemning you for the mistakes you have made. He wants to forgive you and to cover your unrighteousness with His righteousness and to make you someone of worth. [1 John 1:9] You can have confidence and assurance in His forgiveness no matter what you have done. Jesus loves you unconditionally and will accept you just as you are when you come to Him. And Jesus said if you place your eyes on Him and trust in Him, He will come back for you to take you to heaven. [John 14:1-3] You can be 100% assured in His promise. And to trust Him means to trust in His words and His promises. If you're feeling restless, empty and hurting deep inside and feel burdened by your own works and life to be saved, then please throw yourself into the powerful and loving arms of Christ. He will then give you such peace and joy deep in your heart that you will overflow with such love and delight that it will feel like a ton of bricks have been taken of your shoulders. Simply renounce all dependence upon your own works for salvation and trust wholly to the Lamb of God, who takes away the sin of the world. [John 1:29] You can never atone for your sins through yourself, but only through the Lamb, and what He did on your behalf about 2000 years ago! False and man made religion says "DO!" True religion and true Christianity says, "DONE!" [John 19:30] When he had received the drink, Jesus said, "It is finished"Ö Jesus said salvation is finished! Jesus has already fulfilled all the requirements of salvation through His perfect and righteous life of 33 and a half years and the atonement of His death. You cannot add to salvation and earn favour and merit with God through anything you do. It is all through Jesus and His death and perfect life of obedience. Christ paid the FULL price for your salvation. You are saved and "born again" by the Holy Spirit by placing your trust in Jesus and inviting Him into your repented heart to take control of your life. You are "born again" by asking for forgiveness and accepting the life of righteousness that comes from Christ and His blood to wash away your sins to make you clean and white as snow. No "denomination" will wash away your sins. Only Jesus' death and innocent blood will! Salvation only comes through Jesus Christ and no earthly "denomination". It's by knowing God and having a loyal, close and deep personal relationship with Jesus and being covered by Him that you will discover true joy, salvation and eternal life in paradise. [John 17:3] JESUS' LIFE OF RIGHTEOUSNESS OF 33 AND A HALF YEARS HAS BEEN TOO LONG HIDDEN FROM "7th DAY ADVENTISTS!" Satan has hidden the perfect, sinless and holy life of Jesus too long from the people in the "SDA" placing those under bondage and robbing Christ of His glory. Many Christians today have never heard that Jesus has already lived a perfect and sinless life for them to save them. Many have never heard that Jesus lived the life they needed to have lived to be saved and offers to credit His life to them absolutely free. Many today have never heard that Jesus fulfilled all righteousness and kept the law and Sabbath for them perfectly in His holy life of 33 and a half years. It is by turning your eyes from yourself and your works and placing them on Jesus' perfect life and works that you will find wonderful peace and salvation. I plead with you through deep Christian love; please accept Jesus' life of righteousness today and ask Him to cover your filthy rags with His white as snow garment of righteousness, perfection and salvation. Jesus offers His sinless life of 33 and a half years to cover your sinful life. He kept the commandments for you perfectly. He kept the Sabbath for you perfectly. The righteousness of the law and the commandments is fulfilled in you, through faith, which is in Christ Jesus. You can picture yourself going back 2000 years and that it was you that lived and died in Christ as Christ. He totally swaps and exchanges places with you. "Legally" as far as God the Father is concerned, all who accept Christ by faith lived a sinless life of 33 and a half years and kept the law perfectly and died at Calvary 2000 years ago and were "in Christ". [Matthew 5:17] "Do not think that I have come to abolish the LawÖ I have not come to abolish them but to fulfill them" Anyone that claims that Jesus' work on the cross and His life of righteousness was not enough to save them, and that they now need to add to salvation through their own works and life, are committing blasphemy and calling Jesus a liar when Jesus said, "it is finished!" They are preaching another Gospel and not that of Christ. But you can have total assurance that Jesus' life of righteousness and death is enough to save you. You cannot and do not need to add to salvation through anything you do. It is already DONE! And once you have accepted His life of righteousness and His perfection to cover you, you will then walk in His light and path of obedience out of pure delight and love. You will thank Him daily for His mercy and grace. Under grace you are freed from the condemnation and dominion of the law. You are also freed from the law as a way of salvation. And please remember that Jesus came to keep and fulfil the law perfectly on your behalf. He kept the Sabbath and the 10 Commandments for you perfectly. And this perfect life He lived He offers to credit to you so that you may be saved through His death and life. [Romans 5:10] The law never saves you and was never given to save you. Throughout all of history mankind has always been saved by grace and never by the works of the law. However, the requirements of salvation demand perfect obedience to the law. So Jesus came to fulfil that requirement on your behalf by keeping the law perfectly for you. But you can't ever be saved by the law through your own life. [Galatians 2:16] The law was not given to save you, but to point out sin. [Romans 3:20, 7:7] Once you humble yourself and accept Jesus' sinless life and wonderful robe of righteousness to cover you, you will with delight keep the Sabbath and walk in His path of light out of wonderful gratitude and love for Jesus. You will be free to obey Jesus and the law out of love alone. You will freely choose to keep the commandments because you lovingly want to, and not because you have to. [John 14:15] You will then begin to live through grace. And in so doing you will live in harmony and obedience with the holy, just, good and spiritual law of God. But it is Jesus producing obedience and fruit in your life. It's all through Him. [John 15:1-5] You can never be saved in a million years through your own works and obedience. It is all through Jesus' works, life and death. Once I personally realised and accepted with a humble heart that I can never save myself through anything I do, I fell down with a heart full of love at Jesus' feet and asked Him for the gift of salvation through His life, works and the atonement of His death. The only act, work or deed you can ever do to contribute to your own salvation and getting into heaven is to place your trust in Jesus and ask Him to forgive you and to come into your heart. No other act or work on your part will ever save you! Legalism is destroying many lives today. But it need not do so! Simply place your trust in Jesus' life of 33 and a half years to save you. Jesus has already lived a perfect life for you and credits this to you by faith alone. And once you have been saved by Jesus' life and works, you will produce works and fruit in your own life out of love and because you are going to heaven and not as a means to get there. And once you have been saved, you can have assurance of staying saved as long as you stay "In Christ" and allow Him to direct your life. [Romans 8:1] You will not slip in and out of salvation each day and have to give back the gift of heaven day by day. You can have assurance in salvation and being continuously saved and washed clean of all your past, present and future sins because of the blood of Jesus. Being saved is like being married. If a person was to sin against their spouse, they are still married! The same applies to salvation in Jesus. Once born of the Holy Spirit and saved, it's like being married to Christ. It's like a legal covenant or contract between you and Jesus. And if you stumble in sin, you are still married to Christ and still saved and held up in His warm and powerful arms. You are safe in His love and forgiveness as if you never sinned in the first place because you are clothed with Jesus. This does not mean however that you are once saved, always saved, and that you can now go and willfully live a life of sin. But it does mean that when you continue to walk with Jesus in trust and obedience out of love and allow Him to direct your life, you are saved and continuously washed clean of your sins. And when we sin, we ask God for forgiveness because we love Him and to clear our hearts. We don't ask God for forgiveness each day because we are saved one minute and lost the next. We do this because we are in a loving relationship with Jesus and married to Him and continuously saved. We ask God daily to forgive us because we are sorry for our sins and to show Him we do not take sin lightly. [Psalms 38, Proverbs 28:13] Please do this daily out of love for Jesus. The only way for you to lose your salvation after accepting the gift by faith is for you to personally turn your back on Jesus. That is, by refusing to follow His guidance and getting divorced. But, as long as you continue to walk with Jesus in trust, He won't divorce you and demand the gift of salvation back again after you have received it. You would have to divorce Jesus yourself to lose your salvation after inviting Him into your life and receiving the gift of heaven. You would have to turn your back on Him to lose your salvation. Jesus will never turn His back on you. [Hebrews 13:5] So as long as you stay married to Jesus and keep focusing on Him and follow Him, He will fill you with true love, peace, guidance, joy, hope, assurance and salvation. Being saved by your own works is an invention of Satan, and is in contradiction to God's Word. [Ephesians 2:8-9] All those who claim that any personal works will save them do not trust in God's words. And those who claim that you can't have assurance in heaven are calling Jesus a liar and show a lack of faith in the Son of God. But reader, you can have assurance in Jesus and your salvation. The light of truth has shone upon you this day. It's now up to you if you want to accept the light. Please throw to the ground your filthy rags and take your eyes of your own works to be saved and place your eyes on Jesus and ask Him to credit you His works. Please accept the light of truth and Jesus' works today! I plead with you to get out of legalism and bondage and into the freedom of Christ. Many will reject this message and the gift of heaven and focus on their own works to get saved. Many will forfeit salvation through their own willful refusal of the light and gift of eternal life. Reader, I pray however that you will accept Jesus' free robe of righteousness today and accept Jesus' offer of the free gift of the water of life. [Revelation 21:6, 22:17] In our time there seems to be a wide departure from the purity and simplicity of the Gospel. There is a need to wake up from slumber and open the light of the Bible, and the Bible only, as the rule of faith, duty and practice. It is time to get back into the Scriptures! It's time to allow the "Word" to come alive in our hearts. To study it for yourself and allow the Holy Spirit to guide you into all truth and light. And all doctrine must be tested by the Scriptures! And salvation by self-works which has infiltrated the "SDA" through the "Investigative Judgement" doctrine is NOT taught in the Bible but is an invention of Satan himself and robs God's people of assurance in salvation and heaven. It is fully to Jesus that I desire to lead you, to Christ, the true source of salvation. I desire to lead you fully into the truth that Jesus has saved us through His life of righteousness and death at Calvary. It is to the truth and light of the "Gospel" in its fullness that I desire to guide you. And the true Gospel of Christ and salvation by faith and grace alone cannot be preached without offence to some. Some are not willing to humble themselves that they fully need Jesus and that they are totally lost without His perfect life. Many will refuse, due to pride, to accept that all their works add up to nothing towards their salvation and that they are totally lost without the righteous life of Christ. Please never be "religious" about your Christian life, works and keeping the Sabbath. Please remember that Jesus kept the Sabbath for you perfectly. Jesus kept the whole law for you. Jesus' entire life saves you. Jesus came to fulfill all righteousness for you. Even Jesus' water baptism saves you and covers you. You should only walk with Him in water baptism and obedience out of love and delight. [Matthew 3:15] Jesus replied, "Let it be so now; it is proper for us to do this to fulfill all righteousness." You are now free to obey the law and keep the Sabbath and be water baptised out of pure freedom, joy and love; [1 John 5:2-3] because you want to, not because you have to. Because you are saved, and not to be saved. An example of salvation: An atheist who has lived a terrible life without God is dying on his deathbed. But 2 minutes before he dies, he accepts the light and Jesus into his heart by faith. At that exact time, Jesus credits this person His sinless life of righteousness and death. So now "legally" this man had kept the Sabbath perfectly, was water baptised, had kept the law perfectly, had lived a sinless life and had done "everything" needed for salvation. This applies to all that accept Jesus by faith. This applied to the thief on the cross also. This also applies to you at time of surrender to Jesus because at that time of placing all trust in Jesus, He credits everything He had ever done to you. That is the true Gospel and "Good News" in its fullness. Oh, what amazing grace it is, don't you agree? Many have been mislead by Satan into believing that they cannot have assurance in heaven. They believe that it is when Jesus comes that they will know if they will make it into heaven or not. That is really sad! It must break Jesus' heart to know that some fear His return and are not sure in His promise in John 14:1-3. But Jesus wants you to have total assurance in Him and salvation. [Hebrews 10:22] This letter, reader, is not about leaving the "SDA". It's about throwing yourself into the loving arms of Jesus for salvation and to take your eyes of yourself and any "denomination" to be saved. Salvation is all through Him and nothing else. [Acts 4:12, John 14:6]. Please place your loyalty in Christ before any "denomination". Only by being a true "born again Christian" will you make it into heaven. [John 3:7] Some people go to their local branch of the "7th Day Adventist denomination" every Sabbath, tithe, give money to the poor, visit the sick in hospital because they feel they have to. But those truly born again by the Holy Spirit can do the same things but not out of burden, but out of joy and love because they freely choose to and not because they feel they have to. These truly born again Christians have total joy, freedom and assurance in heaven and "know" they are saved. [1 John 5:11-12] [1 John 5:13] I write these things to you who believe in the name of the Son of God so that you may know that you have eternal life. Your heart will be uncertain and restless until you find healing rest, peace and assurance in Christ's righteousness. And the "Good News" is that you can be credited Christ's righteousness right now and have peace with God today. [Romans 5:1] If you have had enough of spiritual sleep, depression and bondage and desire fruits of peace, joy and total freedom and assurance in heaven, and want to truly be a "born again Christian", then please say the following prayer out loud with me right now: Dear Father in heaven, It is so good to be able to stand here in your presence, washed clean because of the blood of Jesus. Please Lord Father, lift up my eyes and help me to place them fully on Jesus. I want to turn away from my sins right now, and give all my sins over to Jesus. I accept right now forgiveness for my sins as a free gift. I truly believe deep in my heart that Jesus is Lord, and my Saviour, and that Jesus died on the cross to pay for all my sins, and that He was raised and lives today. I also accept as a free gift, Jesus' holy, righteous and perfect life in place of my sinful life. I accept Jesus' righteousness in place of my unrighteousness. Jesus, please forgive me my sins, and come into my life and heart right now and save me. Help me to repent dear Lord, and take control of my life. Make me the person You want me to be. I want a second chance at life. I want to be born again. Even more, I want to establish a day to day personal relationship with You. Give me power and desire to fully believe and trust in You dear Lord. Thank you for performing this wonderful miracle in me. In Jesus name, Amen. PS. Jesus is coming back. How do I know this? Because He said He would! [John 14:3] And if Jesus was to come back tonight or you were to die today, you can have total 100% assurance of going to heaven. This is because if you just prayed with all your heart by faith, Jesus has just credited you His perfect life of righteousness of 33 and a half years to cover your faulty life and to forgive your sins and make you clean and pure as wool through His death. So please keep your chin up and keep smiling. And at the final judgement when your name is called, Jesus stands up in your place and you are credited, as a free gift, everything He did in His life and death. Jesus swaps places with you. He gives you His perfection and righteousness in return for your sins, and promises to win your case if you trust in Him. You will be judged on what He did so you can't lose! My friend, I believe, you've a heart for God, it has not become hardened or tough; There's a spark that's just waiting to burst into life and for God, that is enough. Through the years He has had His hand upon you, He's not willing to turn you loose; He has a purpose and plan for your life, if you're willing to follow it through. If you'll keep your eyes fixed upon Jesus all the storms of life you'll pass through; Whether heartaches, fears, hurts or frustrations, just remember, He's been through them too. Don't think of yourself as unworthy God knows that you have what it takes; He sees the person that He wants you to be, He's already erased your mistakes. God doesn't look on the outside, but looks at the heart within; He sees only the good that's inside you and He knows, you've a heart for Him. [Romans 15:33] The God of peace be with youÖ Amen. With warm Christian love, Tony Valentino | ||
| Djconklin |
Tony, Great post; a bit too long and redundant in places but very good on the whole. Pleasde explain better what you are trying to say here: "Please never be "religious" about your Christian life, works and keeping the Sabbath." If you are implying that SDA's are trying to be saved by keeping the Sabbath then I'd have to say that might be true for some but not all. | ||
| Colleentinker |
It's always interesting when Adventists join our forum. You are welcome here, but please remember that this is a forum for FORMER Adventists. Those who come here are not looking for an apologetic for Adventism, grace-based or historic or liberal. There are many other places where they can find volumes of material on Adventism. People come to this forum to find out what former Adventists believe. If you have questions, we'll be happy to discuss them. But this isn't the venue for Adventist apologetics. Most of the people who come to this site already know the evangelical Adventist perspective. Reading it again will most likely do nothing to change their thinking. Praising God for grace and truth, Colleen | ||
| Breezy |
Colleen, I'm really surprised at you. I think this young man spoke very eloquently about his beliefs and is very sincere. I also think he is right. He believes the same way I do only is able to express it better. I'm sad to say that now that you have left Adventism, if someone were able to show you that you were wrong to leave, that you could actually be grace alone and that you had been duped by someone in your interpretation of Adventist doctrine, you would at this point be to proud to admit it. This young man is preaching grace alone! Read his story on his web site. It is very revealing. I and a few others here are not "former Adventists". Would you like us to quit posting just because we haven't joined the pat the back society? I'm sorry if that is how you feel. I would miss you all as friends. I've always admired how open you all are. I'm surprised at your post to this man. It is almost as if your eyes are blinded to what he is really saying. I'm very saddened by that, and will sincerely rethink my position on this forum. Wendy | ||
| Colleentinker |
Dear Wendy, I'm sorry if my post sounded harsh or proud. I did not intend that. What Tony posted he addressed to "7th day Adventists". Even though many Adventists undoubtedly read or post on this site, it is not an Adventist site. His post on this site can be compared to my posting my beliefs (in a very long document) on the GC site or the Ellen White estate site and addressing it to "Former Adventists". I understand that Tony is explaining how he has come to find grace while still joyfully embracing Adventism. I also believe his sincerity. Further, if I were to discover that I had been duped regarding Adventist doctrine, I would praise God for revealing the truth to me. I believe that when we cast our life's lot to Jesus, we must be willing to go wherever he leads, no matter how unexpected or uncomfortable or embarassing. I love your participation on this forum. Love, Colleen | ||
| Breezy |
Dear Colleen, Thank you for clarifying that. I didn't mean to sound so offended, but what he said just rang true to me. I agree it was a bit long and redundant. I was very impressed with how sincere and grateful he was. His life in the past was similar to mine and I understand how close he was to killing himself. I love you too, and would miss you dearly. Sorry again. Love, Wendy | ||
| Djconklin |
Colleen, >Further, if I were to discover that I had been duped regarding Adventist doctrine, I would praise God for revealing the truth to me. I believe that when we cast our life's lot to Jesus, we must be willing to go wherever he leads, no matter how unexpected or uncomfortable or embarassing. I wouldn't say that you or anyone else has been "duped." But those who were supposed to be your spiritual leaders surely did a lousy job! In some cases I would say that you (and others) were flat-out lied to. I was always taught that one is saved by faith and not by works and yet ex-SDA's go on other boards and claim loudly and repeatedly that the SDA church teaches were are saved by works and is likend (sp?) to Catholic theology. I for one am very, very sick and tired of having the church that taught me the most about the Bible and Jesus being run-down and attacked like that. When I see lies like that it really makes me wonder about the soundness of the position that they are trying to defend. For instance, take Walter Rea's book and look hard at the alleged evidence he produces. Here's three samples: (I hope the formatting works! Nope, it didn't; if you are interested just cut-and-paste into a word processor and it should look ok then. Otherwise just read the summaries at the end of each example.) Great Controversy (page 368): as compared to Life Incidents (page 174): Farmers left their fields, <b>Farmers</b> leave <b>their</b> farms with their crops standing, to go out and sound the alarm, and mechanics their shops. merchants their tools, traders their merchandise, professional men their positions; and yet the number of workmen was small. Note that we have a grand total of two words ìfarmersî and ìtheirî that are identical in both. Letís try another to see if it gets any better. From page 237 we find GC (page 395) as compared to Life Incidents (page 170) GC: LI: About this time, fanaticism began to appear ... But <b>fanaticisms</b> are the works of the flesh ... Satan was seeking ... When the work of <b>Satan</b> To oppose and destroy the work of God. in fanaticism is carried out ... its contrast ... will be seen. Here we have a grand total of one word that is common to both (ìfanaticismî) and we should note the heavy use of ellipsis. Letís try another: On page 243 we have GC (page 421) compered to LI (page 194). GC: For eighteen centuries this work of ministration continued in the first apartment of the sanctuary. LI: His ministry in the holy, from his ascension in the spring of A.D. 31 to the autumn of 1844, was eighteen hundred and thirteen years and six months. Now when I was in HS we were taught that re-phrasing of other peopleís ideas was acceptable. I canít speak, of course, for where Rea went to school. | ||
| Billthompson |
Djconklin, I just wrote a long reply to your statements above...then deleted it. Why? As I was reading over what I had written, I realized I have made these arguments in other forums. In those forums the discussion goes on and on endlessly without anyone's mind being changed. I am through with that sort of discourse. No one is served by endless debates. I for one am happy that Colleen and Richard allow civil discussion to take place here but draw the line where angry debate starts. I hope they always keep this policy. A Sinner Saved By Grace Alone, Bill Thompson | ||
| Sally |
Dear Colleen, I just wanted to say that I appreciated your reminder that this is a former adventist forum. I appreciate the support I find by reading this forum. And I'm not interested in the S.D.A positions. I know what they are. A visitor | ||
| Steve |
Hi DJ, You say: "I wouldn't say that you or anyone else has been "duped." But those who were supposed to be your spiritual leaders surely did a lousy job! In some cases I would say that you (and others) were flat-out lied to" We can get technical about the words "duped" and "lied to" but in the end, where's the difference? You also say: "I for one am very, very sick and tired of having the church that taught me the most about the Bible and Jesus being run-down and attacked like that. When I see lies like that it really makes me wonder about the soundness of the position that they are trying to defend. In one paragraph you admit that we've been lied to, then say you're "sick and tired" of having that church being "run-down" and "attacked like that." Are those of us here lying that we have been taught falsehoods? Just because you haven't been taught that doesn't mean that we haven't been taught that. Although I have Atheist friends, and have visited a couple of their websites, even commented once, I don't spend my time there. I can say that I'm sick and tired of the way they denigrate my Savior, and try to destroy belief in God, but I'm really not sick and tired of that. I fully agree with those Atheist friends that their experiences of the love of God through so-called "Christians" has been atrocious. There's not much that I can say that will make a dent in their world-view. But I can express my unconditional love and acceptance of them. You sound like an intelligent person. Are you having a hard time accepting that, while this is not your experience, that many of us have been lied to? It is good to see you back with us. It appears (and appearances can be deceiving) like you have a hard time accepting where many of us are at. But we are at this place in our lives because of SDAism, and in spite of it. God Bless, Steve | ||
| Steve |
After posting, I just saw Sally and BillThompson's posts come up. I should have done what Bill did, and deleted my response. Engaging in these arguments with someone like DJ doesn't accomplish much (anything?) What Colleen and Richard do here has been very healing for me. | ||
| Breezy |
Hi everyone! I would be really curious to find out whether or not any of you took these books that EGW supposedly copied from and actually looked for yourselves at the comparisons. Or did you read the essays by other authors and just believe it without looking. I at first found myself just believing, almost like I wanted an excuse to dump Ellen,etc. But then I have started to get curious and djconklin makes a good point above. If you just read the dissertations, they are very believable because of course they are slanted toward the author's point of view. It has been very worrisome that when I have presented evidence on this forum that EGW believed strongly in grace only salvation, everyone comes back with the arguement that it wasn't what she really meant. Or they nitpick about one little iota of meaning that could possibly be misconstrued. I think it is possible that she was right when she said that the last deception of Satan would be to make of none effect her writings. That certainly has happened. As far as her being the spirit of prophecy, she never claimed to be THE spirit of prophecy. Just used by the Spirit. Spirit-filled, like we like to say of ourselves. I read another womans book who claimed to dream meaningful dreams. I don't believe Ellen will be the last to be used. Or the utmost. And I think that this throw her out cause she made a few "unproven" mistakes theory, is placing far too much trust and faith in people that you don't even know. If you just believe everything you read without researching it for yourself, it is no wonder that you were so mislead in the corrupt churches you were involved in. Like DJ said above, I was raised grace alone, works nothing, and never had issues the way you guys did. Maybe some in college and high school but before that I was never afraid to say I was saved. On the contrary, I was always taught that it would be a slam to Jesus if we accepted salvation and then didn't trust Him enough to say "I am Saved." Sorry for the long post but some things are just beginning to click into place, and I appreciate having a sound board. Thanks guys, Wendy | ||
| Sherry2 |
Wendy, Have you read the 1919 Minutes that were taken at that GC? They provide ample evidence on their own that she borrowed, yet excused it to her being ignorant of it....yet some 40 years later when "Desire of Ages" is out, Fred Veltman himself found this to be true and he was hired by the Conference himself to see if these things were so. There is obvious evidence from the forfathers within the church, let alone those who left the church. I wish it weren't so too Wendy, but it is. Continue to search for yourself. The 1919 minutes are posted on a website, and they are legitimate, as they were printed in Spectrum, a former Adventist magazine, and were recognized as legitmate in the book "The Great Visions of Ellen White". I think the danger that we need to avoid is being embittered by what she did that was wrong and move on. However, this group is made for Former Adventists at all different stages of their leaving Adventism, so E.G.White will get brought up a lot because people are constantly joining the forum who have just figured out some stuff they didn't know...You see what I mean? So in my personal life, I move on....yet if I can share something with someone on this forum to help them settle in their hearts to be able to take her off the high podium she had in their lives, I will do so...Does that make sense? We cannot let a root of bitterness spring up and take hold, no matter what, whether in defending her or not defending her. And yes, we must guard our words. I have been disappointed with some of the websites that have used the craziest quotes to cut her down, and that is sad. If you want the website for the 1919 minutes, let me know and I'll get it for you. My folks just attending the Michigan Conference for one day. They were so disappointed to hear Danny Shelton cut down church after church of what they do wrong, and how Adventists have these wonderful truths. And then they went to get their room (this was on Sabbath)..they weren't going to unload their stuff - they were just staying one night...they would unload after sundown. They just wanted to lay down, but they were not allowed to have the key to their room. It was Sabbath and accomodations were closed...period. I was there too earlier in the day, and had wanted to go to our room and let my two children get some rest(we had arrived on Sabbath as well), but was told that unless someone was bleeding, the dean would not be bothered. What would Jesus do? Is this was Sabbath means to our people? It obviously meant a spirit of legalism at the Michigan campmeeting. Anyhow, God bless you and you search for a continued relationship with Him. He deserves all the honor and praise. I do want to be more like Him every day. He is kind, compassionate, slow to anger, abounding in mercy. I pray that becomes a living reality more and more in my heart every day. God is good, all the time. Thank you for sharing, Sherry | ||
| Sherry2 |
To Tony, I did appreciate your post. It is always good to hear from grace-based Adventists. I thank you for your words. It was worth reading. How do you see the IJ then in light of Ellen White? Do you see her as a prophet who was mislead in that regards? I would like to hear on that. Thank you, Sherry | ||
| Billthompson |
Wendy, I am so glad you were raised with a "grace alone" gospel. I sense this message (the true Gospel message) is very important to you. For me it has become the most important message that Christianity has to offer. In selecting a church to attend, support and raise my children in, this is the first doctrine I check. How do they answer the question, "What must I do to be saved?" A church that has a long confusing answer filled with "but" and other qualifiers for salvation by grace alone is one I will quickly run from. Being a grace oriented person yourself, I am sure you would do the same. Do you and I agree that the sabbath is NOT a salvation issue? That is, different people have different convictions about this observance (Romans 14:5) but it is not "the Gospel", not the "lithmus test" for true Christianity. If we agree on these points, then I would think you and all other truly grace oriented SDAs would be happy that we have discovered the truth of the Gospel, have assurance of our own salvation and thus an effective witness to lost people, whether we learned these things in a church that meets on Saturday, Sunday, Tuesday or everyday, any day. Praise God we are saved! If, however, the Sabbath is more important than the Gospel for a "grace oriented" SDA and will be a future test for salvation then I can understand your frustration over our lack of concern about the name over the door of our church or the day it's doors are open. Do you believe we Formers had better get back on the "Noah's Ark for the last days" (the remnant/SDA denomination) or at least start keeping the sabbath before time gets too short? If you do then we have a different understanding of salvation by grace alone. EGW...a non-issue for me. She had nothoing to do with my leaving the SDA church. I heard about the plagiarism charges years after I left and Walter Rea a couple years after that. She is totally a non-issue for me. As for her prediction that her writngs would be discredited, Jim Jones and David Koresh predicted the government would come down on them with force and their predictions came true, were they all prophets of God? I feel confident I am saved and will be in heaven regardless of whether I accept Ellen, Jim or David as having a prophetic gift. The only prophetic voices I'll heed are those recorded in the Bible. I have staked my eternal destiny on that solid rock. Resting In the Finished Work Of Christ Each and Every Day, Bill Thompson | ||
| Steve |
Hi BreezyWendy, I am one who first saw EGW's plagiarism not from reading anyone's stuff about it, but seeing it with my own eyes. For years I had wanted to read Alfred Edersheim's work, The Life and Times of Jesus the Messiah. When I finally got around to it, I was honestly amazed at some of the striking similarities between what he had written and what I had read of EGW, esp. in Desire of Ages. The next question that is usually leveled at someone like me is "Do you have any background in textual criticism?" No I don't. Therefore I must go to others who have expertise in that area. So I can say that I'm not ashamed of having read some of Walter Rea's stuff. I agree with DJConklin that Rea goes off on a lot of other issues in his book, The White Lie. However, that is NEVER a reason to discount what his careful analysis of the matter has shown. Even Fred Veltmann has admitted that borrowing took place. Pastor Dan Smith, senior pastor at La Sierra University Church (where I'm still a member) said in a sermon earlier this year, that Ellen White did borrow, that she did use other sources that were available to her at the time. When the leadership of the church, via Veltmann, and pastors, such as Smith, can admit that borrowing happened, why do the rest of us have such a hard time with that? I agree, Wendy, we shouldn't just blindly accept what someone is claiming on an important matter. We have a scriptural mandate to check things out. We are to "try the spirits", "test all things", and be noble like the Bereans and search. When someone comes along and says that Rae's book is "lousy" research, without providing much substantitive documentation on the plagiarism issue, then after reading and hearing what I've read and heard, I can only come to the conclusion that EGW used sources. Beware of those who would discount Walter Rea because he goes off on some tangents. I believe he's an honest man who did some good research that has helped a lot of people. God Bless, Steve | ||
| Billthompson |
One last thought. The gospel (way of salvation by grace alone) is not going to change, become more complicated with added tests just before the second coming. We do not need a modern day prophet to "keep us saved" in those final days. See Galatians 1:6-9. We do not have to be paranoid and fear the final days on earth. We can look forward to His soon return, share the Good News in the Bible about what He has done for us with all who will listen and not seek a modern day prophet to "keep us saved" in the end. Anxiously Awaiting His Return and Inviting Everyone to Join Me, Bill Thompson | ||
| Loneviking |
Like Steve, I've read through much of Alfred Edersheims' work and the similarities are beyond coincidence. The SDA church has never denied borrowing went on. What the church tries to claim is that legally, at that time, such borrowing never rose to the the level of plagerism that would have been actionable at law. This is just semantics for me because if Edershiem wrote something similar before EGW---what does EGW add to it? Maybe the imprimatur of the divine?--do some of you believe this? And to DJ Conklin I would say that if you are happy and love EGW so much--fine! Stay where you are--but don't tell those of us who have seen and experienced abuses from the SDA church that we are 'liars' and 'attackers of the church'. You are setting yourself up to be made a fool of because there are so many people that can name names/dates and places where these actions occurred. For these reasons many of us are very glad to be far away from the official church. I would just challenge you to do one thing---for the next, say, six months lay aside the EGW books and study the Bible alone. Really study it with an open, questioning mind. But beware, most former SDA's are 'formers' because they did just that! And DJ--if you think SDA'ism didn't use to be legalistic, you need to go to one of the EGW libraries and read through some of the Youths' Instructors of the 1950's and 60's. Such sins as ironing your clothes on Sabbath and cooking food were soundly condemned as Sabbath breaking. Don't take my word for it though--go do some reading................. | ||
| Graceambassador |
Colleen and Richard: I have never been a S.D.A.. I was conceived and born a Baptist and now I serve God in other camps. I've been a minister for at least 22 years, since I was 26. I'm 48, or, as I say, an eighteen years old with 30 years of experience!. I joined this forum invited by one of your distiguished members. As a Non-former-Adventist I found a nest here since I noticed that very few people understand more the Grace of God, the theme of my ministry, Pauline Revealed Grace, than a former SDA. Perhaps not the full "exegesis" of it, (but who cares?), but the ESSENCE THEREOF. I FEEL WELCOME HERE AND THERE IS NOT DOUBT IN MY HEART THAT NON FORMER ADVENTISTS ARE WELCOME HERE!. As such, I want to express my words of encouragment to you in this MINISTRY that God has given you. I fully understood the comments you made stating that this forum is a Former Adventist forum. I do not feel, in fact, I know that this was not directed to people like me. I thank you from protecting me from reading that which I already rejected. For that all of us, whether former Adventists or of any denomination other than current SDA people, should thank you for your cougrage and singleness of mind. Now, a word about the meaning of the word "lie". Any falsehood spoken about something can only become a lie at the moment of the discovery of the truth about such falsehood. Until then, it is still true. That perhaps justifies claims from people who say that they were not lied to. Perhaps they have not seen the truth about whatever it is that they are being lied to or simply do not want to see the truth. I was struggling not to get involved. "This is not your fight" said my brain. But my heart kept on telling me that any time someone sticks out for the truth they should be commended. Thus, I will not accept any accusations that I got involved unduly because, as some may say, "I've never been a SDA". True, but I have been in other forms of legalism too that are just as bad as the ones the SDA's in this forum have been delivered from! I do get involved on purpose without getting into the merits of the dispute in question, as to whether some claims about Adventism are true or not. I want to respect the sacred step you all have taken in leaving the SDA and will not bash those who stay because it would be disrespectful even for those who left. I never said a word of criticism or otherwise either for or against Adventism. There is no need to try to respond to me on the issues. If you are one of the "elect" YOU SHALL KNOW THE TRUTH AND THE TRUTH SHALL MAKE YOU FREE! This statement is a statement of fact! I will happen to the "elect"! Since this is a public letter, I must say that if anyone still wants to argue with me, in despite of what I said above, please read the Epistles of Paul from Romans to Philemon many times over, compare it with the Books of the Bible from Genesis to Acts. If you see any difference, we can talk about it. Please, do it privately. My e-mail address is fully published through this forum. If you do not see the difference, the analogy will be Lazarus after the resurrection: He was alive, but bound. You may be saved, yes, because of Grace, but if you do not see any difference in Grace, that many things became PAST, that old things have PAST AWAY, than, you are still bound, i.e. mummified. I do not like to discuss with a mummy. Jesus needs to command those who bound you: "Untie him and let him go!...". If not, please, rip Paul's epistles from your Bible. If you do not see the ULTIMATE REVELATION which surpasses ALL the others, then perhaps you should not consider Paul's epistles inspired. I said I would not bash and I am not bashing, I am trying to see you enjoy the life Jesus gave you as Lazarus could enjoy his new life after being dead for so long. I got involved, again, on purpose solely to commend and encourage you, Colleen and Richard, for the work you are doing. P.S. - The only thing I apologize for is for spending so much of your bandwidth just to say the very last phrase of this post. Sincerely from this brother in Christ, Grace Ambassador/Uncle Milt | ||
| Breezy |
All of the above, I would never, ever, claim that any of you are lying. That is not what DJ said. He said that when teachers and pastors gave you false doctrine that led you into a life of fear, they lied to you. What I would just be happy to be convinced of,is that you all believe that your experience is not everyone's experience. I admit that my dad was a rare bird in the Adventist ministry(among other things:)). There were only a few things that I had problems with growing up: moving too much, feeling under scrutiny of the membership, and being dumb enough not to realize my parents always had my best interests at heart. I did all sorts of things against the Adventist "rules". Drinking, clubing, dancing, movies, concerts,etc. My parents supported me through all of it. They had the confidence that Christ had me safe in His arms and would bring me safely home. And praise God He did. They never used fear tactics to compel me to follow their rules. I now see that I was extremely fortunate, more fortunate than those who have lived a life of fear because of misguided preachers and members. I am so very sorry for what everyone of you had to suffer through. And I praise Jesus wholeheartedly for freeing you from a life of bondage. Truly the slaves have been freed and are headed to the Promised Land! I pray that the spirit of fellowship will no longer be disturbed on this forum, and all will return to the original purpose. Uplifting of our fellow christian brothers and sisters. Living in Grace, Wendy |
