| Author |
Message |
Flyinglady
Registered user
Username: Flyinglady
Post Number: 979
Registered: 3-2004
| | Posted on Tuesday, February 01, 2005 - 7:36 pm: |     |
Valerie,
Thank you so much for sharing your story. It is always awesome how God leads each of us away from Adventism.
I have said before that though my family has not practiced Adventism for years and do not go to church, the SDA church still has a hold on them that I do not understand. So I decided to let God take care of them and not try to preach at them. I just love them and pray for them and ask God that I be the example He wants me to be for them. I certainly cannot grab them by the hair and drag them to my church or make them read the Bible. God does a much better job of convincing and convicting than I ever could. So I will leave that job to Him. Occasionally, I get frustrated because of one of them, but most of the time I just leave them to God. He is so awesome and He does the job so much better than I ever could.
Diana |
Dennis
Registered user
Username: Dennis
Post Number: 297
Registered: 4-2000
| | Posted on Tuesday, February 01, 2005 - 8:06 pm: | |
Sandra Tanner, from Utah Lighthouse Ministries, sent me an e-mail message today with the following information about former Mormons:
"Our experience has been the same as you describe for former Seventh Day Adventists. Upon learning of the errors of Mormonism, most exiting Mormons will either become atheists, agnostics or go into new age thinking. Less than half will go on to search out the Bible and settle in a Christian church."
The mutual LDS/SDA cultic grip never ceases to amaze me. Satan truly delights in this negative impact upon former members.
Dennis J. Fischer |
Flyinglady
Registered user
Username: Flyinglady
Post Number: 983
Registered: 3-2004
| | Posted on Tuesday, February 01, 2005 - 8:18 pm: | |
Satan has them either way, either in a cultic church or as agnostics, atheists or new age thinking. As long as they do not turn to the Bible and find Jesus Christ he is delighted. As you say Dennis, I say also, the grip that the LDS/SDA groups has on its members never ceases to amaze me either. I am puzzled by it, then I think of how long it took for God to get through to me. So, I pray for all SDAs and former SDAs who have left God out of their lives. God is still in charge and will prevail. He is awesome.
Diana |
Colleentinker
Registered user
Username: Colleentinker
Post Number: 1341
Registered: 12-2003
| | Posted on Tuesday, February 01, 2005 - 11:35 pm: | |
That irrational, vice-like grip is one of the evidences of the spirits behind those churches. Nothing is neutral; people are either under God's control or Satan's. Only Satan would actually cause the members of the church to be less concerned with one of their own who goes into the world than with one who finds Jesus aand settles into Christianity.
And you're right, Diana--"God is still in charge and will prevail. He is awesome."
Colleen |
Praisegod
Registered user
Username: Praisegod
Post Number: 223
Registered: 3-2004
| | Posted on Wednesday, February 02, 2005 - 3:41 am: | |
Dennis, I found your e-mail from the Tanners to be very interesting. It seems it would be immensely useful if someone would do a research project so we could verify how many "formers" are in the wilderness and never end up finding Jesus in another congregation.
I would suspect that it may be worse even than the Mormons because of that small, inner voice of fear about setting foot into a "Sunday-keeping" church.
If I were 20 years younger I'd take it on myself. But I would try to help anyone who is looking for a major research project. It seems it could go a long way toward proving the cult-like nature if we had better data.
Praise God... |
Denisegilmore
Registered user
Username: Denisegilmore
Post Number: 128
Registered: 10-2000
| | Posted on Wednesday, February 02, 2005 - 5:16 am: | |
hrobinsonw,
Here's a site that investigates the Mormons amongst other cults, sects, religions. Go to the link and on the left hand site scroll down to where it says "Mormonism." That gives a good deal of information.
Peace to your household,
Denise
http://www.watchman.org/watchman.htm |
Raven
Registered user
Username: Raven
Post Number: 187
Registered: 7-2004
| | Posted on Wednesday, February 02, 2005 - 6:18 am: | |
Praisegod, I just love your "picture"! What a cool way to show where your power comes from. |
Colleentinker
Registered user
Username: Colleentinker
Post Number: 1344
Registered: 12-2003
| | Posted on Wednesday, February 02, 2005 - 7:22 am: | |
About the time we started this website (1998), Richard found a website that gave statistics about how many "formers" of various cultic persuasions actually became Christians. At that time (and it was the only place we ever saw this information, and neither of us remembers exactly what the site was nor do we know if it still exists), the data they presented said that only 2% of people who leave Seventh-day Adventism ever attend another Christian church.
In other words, people who can't make Adventism "work" for them go into "nothingness" and unbelief. It seemed a shocking statistic, but it had the ring of truth. After all, how many people did I actually know who no longer attended the SDA church and went to a Sunday church? Hardly any.
I would suspect that the percentage might be a little bit higher now; more and more Adventists are becoming aware of the problems, and information is much more available now.
Colleen
|
Chris
Registered user
Username: Chris
Post Number: 610
Registered: 7-2003
| | Posted on Wednesday, February 02, 2005 - 9:54 am: | |
If I had to guess, I would say that 98% of the shunning, persecution, and assorted harrassment that SDAs do towards formers is directed at the the 2% of us that have joined the Body of Christ. The formers that have become agnostics seem to get a pass as far as I can tell.
Cris |
Freeatlast
Registered user
Username: Freeatlast
Post Number: 278
Registered: 5-2002
| | Posted on Wednesday, February 02, 2005 - 10:12 am: | |
That likely stems from their view of the verse in Revelation 3:15 where Jesus says He would prefer us hot or cold, but not lukewarm.
SDA's see all non-SDA Christian denominations as fitting into this "lukewarm" category. Can't be hot til you keep all 10 commandments, dontcha know?
It would be better to become a cold atheist than a lukewarm mainstream Christian, in the fundamental SDA view. Apparently they believe God will have more mercy on atheists than "apostate protestants".
Go figger... |
Chris
Registered user
Username: Chris
Post Number: 612
Registered: 7-2003
| | Posted on Wednesday, February 02, 2005 - 11:34 am: | |
Freeatlast said: "Apparently they believe God will have more mercy on atheists than 'apostate protestants'. "
I think you're right about that Freeatlast. In my experience, many SDAs believe you are judged (for salvation) based on what you know and if you are sincere in your belief (whatever that may be).
So if an agnostic doesn't believe he has enough knowledge to know if there is really God or not, and he is sincere in his believe (or unbelief as the case may be), then he can still be saved based on his lack of knowledge and sincerity in his agnosticism.
But an "Apostate Christian", especially a former SDA, may very well have enough knowledge to be damned by that knowledge and their lack of sincerity.
If you think about it, this view of salvation really takes Jesus out of the picture altogether. If you can be saved by your own sincerity, then it really doesn't matter what the object of your sincerity (or faith) is. It could be anything.
Humanism, agnosticism, atheism, Buddism, Hinduism, Islam, nature worship, whatever, as long as you have faith in whatever you're into, are sincere about it, and are reasonably ignorant of truth, then you're saved via your sincerity.
The problem I see with this is that I just don't see sincerity, as a way to salvation, ever presented in the Bible. The Bible presents Jesus Christ as the only way to the Father, the only name by which we must be saved, the only source of life. The Bible clearly tells us that only those who have been born again by the Spirit will enter the Kingdom. We cannot experience the indwelling of the Holy Spirit, we cannot experience a new birth, without a relationship with Jesus Christ. Apart from Christ there is no salvation.
CriV |
Pw
Registered user
Username: Pw
Post Number: 291
Registered: 6-2004
| | Posted on Wednesday, February 02, 2005 - 12:58 pm: | |
SDA means= Seventh Day Adventist
ex-SDA means= Some Denominational Apostate |
Susan_2
Registered user
Username: Susan_2
Post Number: 1441
Registered: 11-2002
| | Posted on Wednesday, February 02, 2005 - 1:18 pm: | |
Dennis, I was reading your entry and I read it, "LSD/SDA cultic grip". I kept wondering how the stoner hippies got into the discussion. But, the rest of what you wrote did not make any sense to me because I thought you were linking the acid-heads and the SDA's in the same sort of cultism. So, I went back and reread your entry and it says, "SDA/LDS cultic grip" and then it made sense. Then I got to thinking about all of EGW's vivid hullicinations and I thought maybe I wasn't so far off after all. |
Pw
Registered user
Username: Pw
Post Number: 292
Registered: 6-2004
| | Posted on Wednesday, February 02, 2005 - 2:02 pm: | |
Good thing it wasn't posted as SDA/XTC. |
Susan_2
Registered user
Username: Susan_2
Post Number: 1443
Registered: 11-2002
| | Posted on Wednesday, February 02, 2005 - 2:30 pm: | |
What is XTC? |
Raven
Registered user
Username: Raven
Post Number: 188
Registered: 7-2004
| | Posted on Wednesday, February 02, 2005 - 6:45 pm: | |
Wouldn't that be Ecstasy? (Not that I'm knowledgeable about the drug world...) |
Susan_2
Registered user
Username: Susan_2
Post Number: 1446
Registered: 11-2002
| | Posted on Wednesday, February 02, 2005 - 7:20 pm: | |
OK, I heard about that. Apprently a lot of the teeny-boppers around here are really into that stuff. Frankly, I've never tried it so I can't give a firsthand account of what it's like. However, on my days when I'm filled with empathy and compassion I attribute EGW's "visions" to a nurlogical disorder steming from her childhood injury. Then as my mood progresses towards hostility I decided she was a paychotic menatl case. As my mood further progresses and I read those passages where she consults with her deceased husband and that other passage where she says she was in the company of demons I decided she was just plain possessed. Then I decide it just does not matter two-bits worth to me because I know she is a false prophit, yet I would like to see my loved ones realize how they've been suckered. And, that is what is so wonderful about the publication Proclamation! and these websites that tell the true spirit behind the SDA organization, that they are helping people to be aware of the truth. |
Flyinglady
Registered user
Username: Flyinglady
Post Number: 987
Registered: 3-2004
| | Posted on Wednesday, February 02, 2005 - 8:31 pm: | |
Susan_2,
You are more gracious then I am. I have no sympathy for EGW. It appears to me she went along with her husband and what ever happened to her knowingly. That is with the exception of the person who originally threw the rock and hurt her.
She knew what she was doing all along. That is what can get to me, if I let it, because she suckered all the early SDAs because of her "the Lord/angel showed me" statements.
Like you I am very thankful for the Tinkers and all the others who have web sites about EGW and all the doctrine of the SDAs. God has been awesome in leading me to them and teaching me.
Diana |
Pw
Registered user
Username: Pw
Post Number: 293
Registered: 6-2004
| | Posted on Thursday, February 03, 2005 - 6:46 am: | |
Flyinglady...you're wearing earrings! You rebel rouser you! :-) |
Flyinglady
Registered user
Username: Flyinglady
Post Number: 990
Registered: 3-2004
| | Posted on Thursday, February 03, 2005 - 12:30 pm: | |
Pw,
I am surprised anyone noticed them. The picture is so small.
I have worn them since last March 2004 when I had my ears pierced. Then this last fall I decided I like the dangling ones, so now I have a collection of them and wear them every day.
I am a quiet rebel rouser. I just do my thing and leave the rest to God. He is so awesome.
Diana |
Pw
Registered user
Username: Pw
Post Number: 294
Registered: 6-2004
| | Posted on Thursday, February 03, 2005 - 1:42 pm: | |
And don't think I didn't notice that lipstick either! |
Flyinglady
Registered user
Username: Flyinglady
Post Number: 993
Registered: 3-2004
| | Posted on Thursday, February 03, 2005 - 1:53 pm: | |
So Pw, where is your photo with your earrings and lipstick?? lol
Diana |
Pw
Registered user
Username: Pw
Post Number: 295
Registered: 6-2004
| | Posted on Friday, February 04, 2005 - 8:21 am: | |
Good comeback...however, I shall remain in secret identity. |
Flyinglady
Registered user
Username: Flyinglady
Post Number: 1000
Registered: 3-2004
| | Posted on Friday, February 04, 2005 - 10:53 am: | |
That is okay Pw, we love you any way.
Diana |
Riverfonz
Registered user
Username: Riverfonz
Post Number: 76
Registered: 3-2005
| | Posted on Wednesday, March 23, 2005 - 12:08 pm: | |
Since this thread is about Mormonism; I know there is an organization called Ex Mormons for Jesus, I'm just curious Richard and Colleen, Have you ever thought of expanding your ministry to call it Ex-Adventists for Jesus? Just a thought that crossed my mind. Keep up the good work! Stan |
Richardtinker
Registered user
Username: Richardtinker
Post Number: 21
Registered: 7-2000
| | Posted on Wednesday, March 23, 2005 - 9:34 pm: | |
Several years ago, a group of former Adventists in the Redlands area met monthly for food and fellowship. They called themselves "Ex-Adventists for Jesus."
Colleen and I felt that God was asking us to start a weekly Bible study for formers at Trinity Church. The pastors supported the plan but asked us not to use the name "Ex-Adventists for Jesus" because they thought it sounded too strident or condeming since our large Adventist community says they ARE for Jesus.
We and the other founding members met and prayed for guidance in naming the group. During prayer, the name "Former Adventist Fellowship" was given and confirmed. Our pastoral sponsor also approved of the name, and has continued his support even when the name has drawn Adventists' criticism.
So I guess we'll stay FAF for now! But thanks for your suggestion.
Richard |
Riverfonz
Registered user
Username: Riverfonz
Post Number: 81
Registered: 3-2005
| | Posted on Wednesday, March 23, 2005 - 10:47 pm: | |
Thanks Richard for that history, as I am new at this. I see your point, and probably it would be heavy handed, it was just one of those thoughts that crossed my mind. Thanks, Stan |
