| Author |
Message |
Colleentinker
Registered user
Username: Colleentinker
Post Number: 1651
Registered: 12-2003
| | Posted on Tuesday, March 22, 2005 - 9:28 pm: |     |
Tisha, your experience of worshiping with a group of former SDAs who were newly "out" underscores what I've come to believe is an essential truth: while poeple who leave Adventism need to be able to have the support and fellowship of others who have gone through the same thing, they should not clump together and form a new "church" of formers.
It's a very tempting idea to begin meeting together instead of going to an SDA church--but the reality is that all of us who leave need to study the Bible and fellowship with people who do not have an Adventist background. We'll never grow past our "Adventism" if we do not study with "regular" Christians.
One of our primary goals in our FAF Bible study is to help those who come to become involved in a healthy, Bible-teaching church. Meeting to study and "re-learn" Scripture together is really helpful, but to do so without becoming involved with the greater body of Christ would be to stunt our growth.
We have two things going on simultaneously when we leave. First, we are leaving a cult and are going through an intense paradigm change and debriefing. For this process, we need the help and support of others who have experienced the same thing. Second, we are discovering the Bible and beginning to learn what it really says. This process aids in our debriefing, but it's not really possible to do this learning outsitde the greater body of Christ. If we limit our study to that which we do with other formers, there will always be gaps in our understanding of Scripture.
Because of the the emotional intensity of our loss and grief and paradigm-shifting, our intial urge is to find a "church" of formers. What we really need, though, is a healthy Christian church and Bible study. Simultaneously we need each other's support.
These two processes inform and enhance each other. Ideally we need them both.
Colleen |
Heretic
Registered user
Username: Heretic
Post Number: 22
Registered: 2-2005
| | Posted on Wednesday, March 23, 2005 - 3:55 am: | |
In this week's Little Friend there was a story called "Ryan Invites Mr. Schwab to Church". Mr. Schwab was the guy who sold little Ryan and his Mom flowers for their special Easter program at his church. The program was on Saturday afternoon.
In the lesson story, in the same edition, it talks about the thief on the cross and how Jesus tells him how ONE DAY he would be in heaven. Having to censor everything published for kids is getting old.
I wish we could just make a clean break out of Adventism but its just not that simple, unfortunately, especially when you have small children and all they've ever known is there.
Heretic |
Tracey
Registered user
Username: Tracey
Post Number: 310
Registered: 9-2004
| | Posted on Wednesday, March 23, 2005 - 5:33 am: | |
Heretic,
I belonged to a church that overemphasized certain teachings in the bible. Unfortunately, love was not the one. I was asked to leave for dating an SDA or break up with him. I was in essence dating someone unsaved which was a bad example to young women (teens).
I took a 2 week break and prayed about direction to take, visited other churches. Called the pastor, sent a letter and resigned. Why?
Because NO LOVE. If I truly were dating an unsaved person, then there should've not been a rejection of that person but an attitude of love to make them feel welcome. I decided that even if I broke up with this person, I could not belong somewhere so "religious". Jesus is the center of my life. Love is the greatest commandment He gives us.
My clean break was simple. I would not be a part of that attitude or practices. It is that simple. You may not move as fast as me but if you get away from the idea "it's not that simple" and seek the voice of the Lord, He will tell you your next steps.
"Trust in the Lord with ALL your heart. Don't lean to your own understanding. If Heretic acknowledges the Lord in all Heretic's way, HE will direct your path."
You deserve to be fed the true Word of God and guess who else? the children,. They trust YOU.
Pray and don't hesistate when God directs you. |
Pheeki
Registered user
Username: Pheeki
Post Number: 507
Registered: 1-2003
| | Posted on Wednesday, March 23, 2005 - 8:14 am: | |
As a child, Easter was pretty much only celebrated as an easter egg hunt and candy. I really didn't tie it into Christ's death and resurrection. They didn't focus on it.
The former SDA church I attended did absolutely nothing for Easter...it always bothered me...it is truly like a non-celebration! So my family and I would attend the larger more liberal SDA church for the easter service, it was ok...still felt kind of cold...Friday night they started with a bunch of candles and lit them as light came into the world, Jesus. Then they gradually put them out as he was descending to the cross and we left in total darkness. The next day (Saturday) they lit the candles again and sang...it was pretty good but I wouldn't call it an all out celebration of His resurrection.
This Easter Sunday I am attending Ressurection Sunday services at my church, I am excited to see what happens! |
Raven
Registered user
Username: Raven
Post Number: 226
Registered: 7-2004
| | Posted on Wednesday, March 23, 2005 - 8:33 am: | |
Heretic,
If your children are young enough to be getting the "Little Friend", that's a great age to adjust to a new church! Trust me, it will only get harder when all they've known is for 10 years instead of 5 years, for example. We didn't leave until our kids were in the 4th and 5th grades. By then, their roots were firmly in SDAism, and it has been hardest for our older daughter. At the same time, we recognized we had to make this change so our practice matched our beliefs--because the kids recognized the dissonance and were asking a lot of questions. |
Chris
Registered user
Username: Chris
Post Number: 764
Registered: 7-2003
| | Posted on Wednesday, March 23, 2005 - 8:57 am: | |
It's not easy, not easy at all to pull the kids out of Sabbath school, out of SDA grade school, away from friends. We grappled with all of this and it wasn't easy. But I do believe it was the right thing for us to do. I did it largely for my kids.
The easiest thing in the world would have been for my wife and I to stay in our comfortable world. We could have privately disagreed with Adventist doctrine (many SDAs do). We could have privately lived our life differently than SDA dogma demands (many SDAs do). We toyed with this option, even tried this option for awhile.
If we had stayed where were at we would have still been accepted, there would have been no family division, no loss of friends, and no hardship. But there also would have been very little growth and it wouldn't have done a thing for helping our kids break out of the cycle.
I did what I did, suffered what I suffered, largely because I don't want my kids to ever have to go through this. I am giving my kids an opportunity at a different life, a Christian life outside the world of Adventism. Hopefully they will never have to experience the pain of leaving and the pain of shunning that we did. Hopefully they will never wonder if they are saved or not. Hopefully they will grow up with a vibrant relationship with Jesus from a young age. Hopefully whatever early legalism we instilled in them will fade with time. I have many hopes for my girls, but I believe leaving Adventism was necessary to acheiving many of those hopes.
Chris |
Tracey
Registered user
Username: Tracey
Post Number: 312
Registered: 9-2004
| | Posted on Wednesday, March 23, 2005 - 9:51 am: | |
You guys (Raven and Chris) words about your children just make tears come.
Thank you Lord!
|
Colleentinker
Registered user
Username: Colleentinker
Post Number: 1657
Registered: 12-2003
| | Posted on Wednesday, March 23, 2005 - 11:01 am: | |
Chris and Raven and Tracey, I agree wholeheartedly with you. It was our kids that became the decisive factor in our leaving. I fancied that they would suffer greatly--they were 11 and 15--at changing schools, leaving their friends at church, etc. While they exeperienced some angst--especially our younger son who feel everything really deeply and has trouble expressing his feelings--they surprised both of us by finding friends and acceptance and unique ways to serve in their youth groups at church.
Leaving is most definitely traumatic, but taking our kids out of Adventism was without doubt one of the most profound and meaningful things we've ever done for them. Our younger son--the one who's quiet and generally non-self-revelatory--showed me his essay for one of his university applications this week. (This university is not a Christian school.) His essay explained that he was born in SDAism, but when he was 10 his family decided to leave. When he went to his new, Christian school, he exprienced warmth and belonging he had never known before. Then came the summer when he went to camp with his youth group and met Jesus and accepted him as his Savior. (I'm condensing here!) His essay ended with the assertion that because he has met Jesus and has accepted him, he knows he will go to heaven when he dies.
Richard and I were completely amazed when we read it; here's this fairly nerdy-geeky 18-yr-old planning to major in computer science and graphic arts writing about his conversion and Christian experience for a non-Christian univeristy application essay. This would NEVER have happened if he had stayed immersed in Adventism.
All I can say is, "Praise God from Whom all blessings flow!"
Heretic, God is faithful; He will honor your decision to follow Him and to lead your family in serving Him in ways you have no way of seeing in advance. Be of good courage--He will walk with you through all of the uncertainties and hard decisions, and He will glorify Himself as you say Yes to Him!
Colleen |
Chris
Registered user
Username: Chris
Post Number: 765
Registered: 7-2003
| | Posted on Wednesday, March 23, 2005 - 11:20 am: | |
Yes Colleen, when I talk about how hard it all was, I really am saying how hard it was on my wife and me. We experienced a lot of hardship (still struggle with family) and we worried a lot about our kids, but truth be told the kids adapted quite well and are really happy at their new church and new school. I didn't think it affected them much. It turns out it did, but in ways I hadn't anticipated:
Praying with my 5 y/o one night I heard her pray spontaneously, "Dear Jesus, thank you so much for dying on the cross to forgive all our sins so we can be with you forever". I was so joyful to hear the gospel come out of her mouth and it struck me that we never really talked about these things at home when we were SDA. I may have never heard that touching prayer without the work God was doing in my family.
A while back my 9 year old heard about someone at our church who had Adventism in their family background. Her comment was, "They came out of the same waters as we did." I thought that was rather an interesting way of phrasing things for a 9 year old. I thought, "She gets it!" She understands that we had to "come out" of something and that that the journey out was a good thing.
It is indeed as if we have been drawn from the Nile, saved from death, saved from bondage, set free in Christ, chosen to do His will. May we now, by the Grace of God, lead others out of Egypt.
Chris
(Message edited by Chris on March 23, 2005) |
Riverfonz
Registered user
Username: Riverfonz
Post Number: 83
Registered: 3-2005
| | Posted on Thursday, March 24, 2005 - 5:23 pm: | |
Susan mentioned the idea that Easter on Sabbath is an oxymoron--I agree. I love what the late Dr J Vernon McGee said, We don't worship a dead Christ! That's why we don't go to church on Saturday, We worship the living Christ! Just last week I heard D. James Kennedy say,"Why are you folks here on Sunday, and not on Saturday? When you folks get into your cars and come to church on Sunday, you witness to the world that Christ is risen from the dead". He is Risen,Indeed! A blessed Easter everyone! (On Sunday) Stan |
Dennis
Registered user
Username: Dennis
Post Number: 349
Registered: 4-2000
| | Posted on Friday, March 25, 2005 - 4:54 pm: | |
Colleen,
Your post contains excellent advice for former Adventists to wisely emulate.
Stan,
Thank you for sharing the powerful quote from Dr. Kennedy. Indeed, we worship a living Christ. Every Sunday is a weekly Easter. HE IS RISEN, INDEED!
Dennis J. Fischer
|
Loneviking
Registered user
Username: Loneviking
Post Number: 325
Registered: 7-2000
| | Posted on Saturday, March 26, 2005 - 8:29 am: | |
At my wifes' SDA church there won't be any Easter mention. No Good Friday, no Easter--not even a mention of it in the bulletin. It's as if the topic of the resurrection is not too be mentioned. How did we, as adults, manage to get along for so long is such a messed up church?
(shaking my head in amazement...) |
Susan_2
Registered user
Username: Susan_2
Post Number: 1746
Registered: 11-2002
| | Posted on Saturday, March 26, 2005 - 4:04 pm: | |
At the SDA church my son goes to as well as the one my mother goes to there is no mention whatever of the Ressurection. My d-i-l is a lapsed Catholic. Until she met my son she never known a SDA or heard of the SDA. She asked me recently is the SDA really are Christian? I old her they are. She wanted to know how come they don't do anything Christian, even wear crosses or have a cross up at the church and how come they have lots of rules that has nothing to do with Christian. I tod her the main focus of the SDA religion is not Jesus. It is trying to understand prophecy and to figure out were humanity currently is in the time to figure out when Jesus will come back and the other main focus of the SDA is what they have to do and what they cannot do on Saturdays. She said something about that not sounding Christian at all to her. What?! Did my son actually think his wife wouldn't notice?! She is just looking forward so much for their move to Guam so they can get away from "Those weird SDA's". But, last week I found out there is an exceptionally large SDA presence in Guam. Please pray! |
Dd
Registered user
Username: Dd
Post Number: 381
Registered: 7-2004
| | Posted on Saturday, March 26, 2005 - 4:47 pm: | |
I went to the church service today at WWC. The sermon was very good...Karl Haffner covered the two things we need to know for the final exam...1)Christ died for our sins...2)Christ rose from the dead. Tomorrow if the large Walla Walla community Easter sunrise service is rained out (90% chance of rain), they will hold it in the large college church! I was shocked! A local non-SDA pastor will preside over the service.
It was mentioned serveral times (not by Karl in the sermon) during opening announcements and opening prayer that Jesus rested in the grave on Sabbath. That seemed to be an important issue they wanted to get across today. |
Jeremy
Registered user
Username: Jeremy
Post Number: 489
Registered: 10-2004
| | Posted on Saturday, March 26, 2005 - 5:21 pm: | |
It's so sad when to most SDAs, Jesus being dead (resting in the grave on Sabbath) is more important than celebrating Him being alive and risen from the dead!
Jeremy |
Flyinglady
Registered user
Username: Flyinglady
Post Number: 1265
Registered: 3-2004
| | Posted on Saturday, March 26, 2005 - 5:50 pm: | |
It was not until I gave up EGW last year that I was able to say "I am saved" and say it with a joyous, beleiving heart. It is strange to say "He is risen". That is still shades of adventism. With God's help I will be able to say it with the joy I say "I am saved". HE IS RISEN! HE IS RISEN! HE IS RISEN AND BECAUSE HE IS RISEN I AM SAVED! Thank you God. You are awesome.
Diana |
Jeremy
Registered user
Username: Jeremy
Post Number: 490
Registered: 10-2004
| | Posted on Saturday, March 26, 2005 - 7:08 pm: | |
Amen, Diana! HE IS RISEN, INDEED! And because He is risen I am saved indeed! 
Jeremy |
Melissa
Registered user
Username: Melissa
Post Number: 824
Registered: 7-2003
| | Posted on Saturday, March 26, 2005 - 8:28 pm: | |
Jeremy, B has flat out told me his death was all that really mattered, not his resurrection. That one's pretty easy to refute with scripture, but even after pointing out the contradiction to scripture, he still said it was his death that paid for our sins. What DO you say to that? (a rhetorical question...)
|
Heretic
Registered user
Username: Heretic
Post Number: 24
Registered: 2-2005
| | Posted on Saturday, March 26, 2005 - 8:47 pm: | |
Dd,
That's funny. I went to church here today, too, and our pastor said pretty much the same thing. That the Sabbath was so sacred that Jesus "rested" in the tomb on that day then was raised on Sunday. To his credit, though, he did say that our only means of salvation is through Jesus' death on the cross, end of story. That it was an atonement for sins before, during the time of, and after his death. He does inflame certain bretheren at times with statements like this. |
Jan
Registered user
Username: Jan
Post Number: 22
Registered: 1-2005
| | Posted on Saturday, March 26, 2005 - 8:49 pm: | |
I'd say that thousands died on crosses. Only one rose out of the tomb.
In a book I was reading tonight (From Sabbath to Lord's Day) it stated that if we want to celebrate a dead Jesus, we'll go to church on Saturday.
If we want to celebrate an alive Jesus, we'll go to church on Sunday. Hmmmm. |
Susan_2
Registered user
Username: Susan_2
Post Number: 1748
Registered: 11-2002
| | Posted on Saturday, March 26, 2005 - 9:42 pm: | |
Yeah, I personally know SDA's who saythat he weekly Sabbath is so holy that even God himself wouldn't violate resting on that day and that is why Jesus was in the tomb dead over the Sabbath. Then, of course, He worked on Sunday by raising from the dead. I mean it. That is so warped. It's totally skewed. In my opinion, it is not even Christian. In fact, the older I get the more I don't even consider the SDA church, the organization, the denomination, I don't even consider the SDA Chistian. Do an of you others ever give this any thoughts? |
Ric_b
Registered user
Username: Ric_b
Post Number: 224
Registered: 7-2004
| | Posted on Sunday, March 27, 2005 - 7:17 am: | |
My response to that Sabbath argument is John 5:16-17 For this reason the Jews were persecuting Jesus, because He was doing these things on the Sabbath. But He answered them, "My Father is working until now, and I Myself am working."
Jesus defended healing on the Sabbath by saying that God works on the Sabbath.
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Flyinglady
Registered user
Username: Flyinglady
Post Number: 1268
Registered: 3-2004
| | Posted on Sunday, March 27, 2005 - 11:31 am: | |
If all Jesus had done was be put to death on the cross and had not risen from the grave, there would be no hope for anyone. It was His resurrection and return to heaven to sit at God's right hand that enables us to be saved. HE IS RISEN AND BECAUSE OF THAT I AM SAVED.
As for SDAs being Christian, that is not for me to say at this time. There are some SDAs who are Christian. I know a couple in VA who are SDA Christians. I have to remind myself all the time that the SDAs are wearing filters and do not even realize it. One day they will and then they will take the filters off and see what the Bible really says.
He is awesome.
Diana |
Foreverscout
Registered user
Username: Foreverscout
Post Number: 17
Registered: 3-2005
| | Posted on Sunday, March 27, 2005 - 3:15 pm: | |
I just want to thank everyone here for all these wonderful posts. You are helping me to build hope for my brother one block at a time. I know that God wants my brother for His kingdom even more than me and will stop at nothing to reach him.
Yes, He is truly Risen Indeed!!!
Foreverscout |
Windmotion
Registered user
Username: Windmotion
Post Number: 115
Registered: 6-2001
| | Posted on Sunday, March 27, 2005 - 7:38 pm: | |
So, do Adventists sing "Christ the Lord is risen tomorrow, Alleuia!" on the Saturday before Easter?
Humorously,
Hannah
P.S. I was finally able to talk to my father-in-law briefly about the John Newton testimony which I sent. It had gotten lost in the transmission between my mother-in-law and him since he doesnt have his own email. He said he liked it. It was the most grace-filled one I could find, so I don't know what he really thinks.
My husband said that even if his dad doubted his religion he would never leave because it would mean admitting he was wrong to so many people. |
Riverfonz
Registered user
Username: Riverfonz
Post Number: 95
Registered: 3-2005
| | Posted on Sunday, March 27, 2005 - 8:15 pm: | |
Windmotion, Don't give up on your F-I-L. My Dad was the "Saul of Tarsus" of Adventism, with more zeal than anyone I have known for SDA. The Lord did a work of grace on his heart, and he saw the error of SDA after 10 years of study. He has now written or talked to everyone he can think of to tell them he was wrong. I'm proud of him. God can work miracles. I will be in prayer for your FIL. Stan |
