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Message |
Seekr777
Registered user
Username: Seekr777
Post Number: 248
Registered: 1-2003
| | Posted on Tuesday, August 23, 2005 - 11:03 pm: |     |
Chis thanks for your comments.
I know that the testimony of formers here has much greater impact when it does not appear that everyone assume's everything she says must be incorrect. "Scholarship" needs to be blind to agendas and honest in it's examination. I hope it isn't true but sometimes it appears that some believe if she said it, then it must be rejected. I appeal to everyone to keep their eyes on the Bible and God's revelation of Himself in it's pages.
I'm not defending her at all. I long ago went to a Bible ONLY attitude for my faith. I have "lost" many boxes of her books over the past year.
Again Thanks,
Richard
rtruitt@mac.com |
Violet
Registered user
Username: Violet
Post Number: 234
Registered: 2-2001
| | Posted on Wednesday, August 24, 2005 - 7:21 am: | |
Amid the prevailing corruption, Methuselah, Noah, and many others labored to keep alive the knowledge of the true God and to stay the tide of moral evil. A hundred and twenty years before the Flood, the Lord by a holy angel declared to Noah His purpose, and directed him to build an ark. While building the ark he was to preach that God would bring a flood of water upon the earth to destroy the wicked. Those who would believe the message, and would prepare for that event by repentance and reformation, should find pardon and be saved. Enoch had repeated to his children what God had shown him in regard to the Flood, and Methuselah and his sons, who lived to hear the preaching of Noah, assisted in building the ark. {PP 92.2}
This is the quote I am speaking of in PP. I read this to say that 120 years before the flood God spoke to Noah. HOw could this be if his sons had wives at the time, and Shem was 100 years old 2 years after the flood Gen 11:10?
I agree that God gave men 120 years after His decision, but Noah did not know about it until some time later.
Both of the verses Chris quoted do not say that God waited for anyone but Noah and his family.
It is the following detail that does not go with the Bible. I see no evidence that I can find that anyone listened IF Noah was preaching. In fact Matthew 24:38 indicates that they were not even paying attention to Noah as anyone who has planned a wedding or any party that is what is on the foremost of your mind. God said they did not understand until the flood came. If Noah spent 120 years preaching you would think someone would of gotten it.
Many at first appeared to receive the warning; yet they did not turn to God with true repentance. They were unwilling to renounce their sins. During the time that elapsed before the coming of the Flood, their faith was tested, and they failed to endure the trial. Overcome by the prevailing unbelief, they finally joined their former associates in rejecting the solemn message. Some were deeply convicted, and would have heeded the words of warning; but there were so many to jest and ridicule, that they partook of the same spirit, resisted the invitations of mercy, and were soon among the boldest and most defiant scoffers; for none are so reckless and go to such lengths in sin as do those who have once had light, but have resisted the convicting Spirit of God. {PP 95.2}
Just my 2 cents
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Chris
Registered user
Username: Chris
Post Number: 1006
Registered: 7-2003
| | Posted on Wednesday, August 24, 2005 - 9:15 am: | |
Violet, we're simply not given enough information to know every detail of the time period when Noah was building the ark. All I'm saying is that Christians have historically believed that Noah was a preacher of righteousness to the people of his generation and that God patiently waited on the antidulivians giving them an opportunity to repent. This may or may not be correct, depending on your interpretation of a few texts, but it is orthodox. It's nothing that one could fairly criticize another for teaching. Hey, I personally believe that EGW was a false prophet who had a spirit guide and who taught the doctrines of demons. My point here is that this particular bit of information seems to be quite orthodox so there's no real reason to point to it as evidence of someone being a false prophet. A lot of excellent evangelical preachers teach the same thing about Noah's time and they have biblical reason for doing so.
Chris |
Chris
Registered user
Username: Chris
Post Number: 1007
Registered: 7-2003
| | Posted on Wednesday, August 24, 2005 - 9:32 am: | |
Just to illustrate that this idea of Noah witnessing to the antediluvian world is throroughly orthodox, I have provided commentary by well respected evangelical scholar, and former head of ìBack to the Bibleî, Warren Wiersbe.
quote:The 120-year limit expressed in verse 3 probably refers to the years until the Flood would come. God is long-suffering with lost sinners, but there comes a time when judgment must fall. During that "day of grace," Noah prepared the ark and gave witness that judgment was coming (2 Peter 2:5), the same message Enoch had given during his lifetime (Jude 14-15). God gave His message in the mouth of two witnesses, but the people wouldn't listenÖ.The people of that day "married and were given in marriage" (Matt. 24:37-39) and thought nothing of the warning that Enoch and Noah gave about the coming judgment. Human history was now at the place where only Noah and his familyóeight peopleóbelieved God and obeyed His Word. God's Spirit was striving with lost people, but they resisted the call of God; and God was grieved at what man was doing.
Noah's faith involved the whole person: his mind was warned of God; his heart was moved with fear; and his will acted on what God told him. Since nobody at that time had ever seen a flood (or perhaps even a rainstorm), Noah's actions must have generated a great deal of interest and probably ridicule as well. Noah's faith influenced his whole family and they were saved. It also condemned the whole world, for his faith revealed their unbelief. Events proved that Noah was right! Jesus used this experience to warn people to be ready for His return (Matt. 24:36-42). In Noah's day, the people were involved in innocent everyday activities and completely ignored Noah's witness (2 Peter 2:5).
Genesis 6:3 indicates that God waited 120 years before He sent the Flood. All during that time, Noah ministered as a "herald" of God's righteousness. If you want to read a description of the world before the Flood, read Romans l:18ff. Gentile civilization had become so corrupt that it was necessary for God to wipe the earth clean. He saved only eight people, Noah and his family, because they had faith in God (Heb. 11:7).
But nobody believed Noah's message! Jesus made it clear that people were enjoying their normal lives up to the very day that Noah and his family entered the ark! (Luke 17:26-27) No doubt there were plenty of "experts" who laughed at Noah and assured the people that a rainstorm was out of the question. Had anybody ever seen one? The apostates in Peter's day used that same argument to "prove" that the Day of the Lord would not come (2 Peter 3:3ff).
When you compare our world with Noah's world, you see some frightening parallels. The population was multiplying (Gen. 6:1), and the world was filled with wickedness (Gen. 6:5) and violence (Gen. 6:11, 13). Lawlessness abounded. True believers were a minority, and nobody paid any attention to them! But the Flood came and the entire population of the world was destroyed. God does indeed judge those who reject His truth.
óBible Exposition Commentary - Old Testament
In love and respect,
Chris
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Violet
Registered user
Username: Violet
Post Number: 235
Registered: 2-2001
| | Posted on Wednesday, August 24, 2005 - 10:17 am: | |
I am not saying that everything she said must be rejected just because it came from her. I just know that the Lord speaks to each of us differently and what may seem petty to one is the tool God uses another to start studying. It was a very petty issue that started my journey out. Maybe I am not educated enough to delve into weightier subjects. I just read the Bible over and over and eventially it seems to be more clear. |
Melissa
Registered user
Username: Melissa
Post Number: 1015
Registered: 7-2003
| | Posted on Wednesday, August 24, 2005 - 10:33 am: | |
Has anyone noticed the similarity in the pp95.2 quote (Violet's post 234) and what happened in 1844? It seems to me she said the same thing about the people who gave up on the 2nd coming message being taught by them at the time.
As I've been reminded of before, EGW copied from some reputable Christian writers, so it would not surprise me to find some of her statements accurate. However, I wouldn't refer someone to Benny Hinn just because some of his statements are correct, especially in regards to spiritual things. Some might find that comparison harsh, so I'm sorry if it is offensive. The point is, how can you know when to say "these things are okay" and "these things are bad"? You have to be knowledgeable to make that discernment. |
Riverfonz
Registered user
Username: Riverfonz
Post Number: 694
Registered: 3-2005
| | Posted on Wednesday, August 24, 2005 - 11:28 am: | |
Melissa,
Comparing Benny Hinn to EGW harsh? Nooo!!
You are right on with that comparison!
Truth will always be mixed with error in most false prophets. That is why they are so deceptive.
Stan
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Insideoutsider
Registered user
Username: Insideoutsider
Post Number: 32
Registered: 6-2002
| | Posted on Wednesday, August 24, 2005 - 11:38 am: | |
Melissa, I don't find your statements harsh at all. The reality is that many thousands have been wee-marred (I'm using a posters e-name)by the grumpy prophet for over 160 years. |
Pheeki
Registered user
Username: Pheeki
Post Number: 620
Registered: 1-2003
| | Posted on Wednesday, August 24, 2005 - 12:49 pm: | |
When I have seen Benny Hinn, he appears as this angel of light sort of person...all dressed in white with the nice camera filters on him...his soft tones and melodic speech...SCARY! What does he stand for? I don't know anything about him. |
Windmotion
Registered user
Username: Windmotion
Post Number: 187
Registered: 6-2001
| | Posted on Wednesday, August 24, 2005 - 1:41 pm: | |
The biggest difference between the Warren Wiersbe quote and the Ellen White quote? It's a big word. "PROBABLY." Wiersbe said this scenario "probably" happened, while EGW says "oh yes, it happened." Just because it's a possible (or even plausible) scenario doesn't make it the correct one. I remember hearing my mom explain to my younger brother that what is written in story books isn't true, even though it sounds true. He was so surprised! And it took him a while to wrap his mind around the concept. I remember being surprised because I had never had that assumption, which is probably why I remember it.
In all probability,
Hannah |
Riverfonz
Registered user
Username: Riverfonz
Post Number: 695
Registered: 3-2005
| | Posted on Wednesday, August 24, 2005 - 3:19 pm: | |
Pheeki, you are right about Benny Hinn being SCARY! Here is a link www.apologeticsindex.org/h01.html If you look at the right side there are links to different events and things he has said. Look especially at "the Graveside Vision" link where he describes a vision of Kathryn Kuhlmann coming back from the dead. He also believes that Christ will literally show up in person and accompany him (Hinn) to work resurrection miracles before Christ returns. I have no idea how this guy gets a forum on any so-called Christian station, but as we talked about on another thread yesterday TBN is also known as "Heresy Broadcasting Network"
Stan |
Colleentinker
Registered user
Username: Colleentinker
Post Number: 2457
Registered: 12-2003
| | Posted on Wednesday, August 24, 2005 - 4:48 pm: | |
Melissa and Hannah, I agree with you.
It's really a scary thing to realize that there are people (Hinn, for example, and EGW) who use the name of God to make money.
I really do pray that God will protect us from deception and arrogance.
Colleen |
Seekr777
Registered user
Username: Seekr777
Post Number: 249
Registered: 1-2003
| | Posted on Wednesday, August 24, 2005 - 11:57 pm: | |
Violet, I'm sorry I wasn't referring to anything you said. I understand very well your comment about reading the Bible over and over. If your like me you find that reading the things you read in previous years take on an entirely different meaning and God reveals His truth to you.
We are all precious to God and He reveals in His own way and time what we need to understand about His nature and will in our life.
Richard
rtruitt@mac.com
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