| Author |
Message |
Colleentinker
Registered user
Username: Colleentinker
Post Number: 3356
Registered: 12-2003
| | Posted on Tuesday, February 07, 2006 - 11:15 am: |     |
JavaGirl, thanks for you post. It's really insightful, and I praise God both for centering your heart and for the evidence that your husband at least SEES how much better your life is since walking away from Sabbath into Jesus.
He is so faithful.
Colleen |
Jorgfe
Registered user
Username: Jorgfe
Post Number: 130
Registered: 11-2005
| | Posted on Tuesday, February 07, 2006 - 5:32 pm: | |
JavaGirl -- I am so glad to hear that things are going better for you today. We are all here to support and encourage you.
I like your chart. It is so true. When I went to any of the Adventist churches I thought to myself (and I know I am not alone), "How can I ever bring a 'non-Adventist' here". The world is so much different when we think like other fellowships -- 'Christian' vs 'non-Christian'.
Now I can't wait to start inviting others to the new church that I am attending! It is really refreshing. And to think that I am 54, and have grown up in an Adventist "cocoon" all my life -- a significant part of that at "Saint" Andrews University, Berrrien Springs, Michigan. I suspect it is similiar at "Saint" Loma Linda, or any other Adventist ghetto.
The Holy Spirit can, and will, reach your husband. You have to be confident in the truths you have learned and he will follow. I am confident of that. I find that my dear wife will test some logic just to see if it is still "safe to walk on". As she sees that more and more of the old Ellen White-based doctrines are built on "rotten timbers" and twisted falsehoods she is coming around. Praise the Lord.
This evening I attend my first Bible Study Fellowship meeting, and am eagerly looking forward to it. Even though my wife doesn't yet go I can still bring home what I learn, and it provides her with fresh material to contemplate. She is even commenting about how some of the things that she used to believe must have come from Ellen White, instead of the Bible. Our faith and trust in God is a powerful witness to our families. Even my dear mother who frequently reminds me of the 7th-day Sabbath, I am finding doesn't really know that much about the Bible. I asked her what she thought about the book of Hebrews, and she referred me to Elder Andreason's (regurgitation of Ellen White's) writings. It is a "scary" world for them out there without Pope Ellen White's "lesser light".
Gilbert |
Anotherseeker
Registered user
Username: Anotherseeker
Post Number: 41
Registered: 8-2005
| | Posted on Wednesday, February 08, 2006 - 8:38 am: | |
Java girl,you may have read my post last week in relation to me not ringing my parents for the EXACT reasons.
I am still not led to call but think about it everyday.
I AM DELIGHTED FOR YOU and i Thank God for your Holy Ghost Boldness.
I already did what you have done but they have disregarded it without really telling me that they have.
The reason i know this is because when i last saw them in October and i flippantly mentioned in conversation the words "even though i have left the church".
My Mother reacted with surprise and told me not to say i have left the church and my Dad looked on as well.
I WAS TOTALLY SHOCKED it was as if i had not had seperate conversations with them about my issues with the church and the fact that i was leaving???
In December my Father asked what my church was doing for Xmas and so that sealed my assumption.
Fortunately he did not give me the opportunity to answer which would of course have been "i told you that i do not attend there anymore" and continued to tell me what their church was doing.
That was a silent blow for me...the final nail as i realised for certain that my work with them WAS NOT DONE!
Now i am just resting in Christ until the appropriate time arises again but i am not going to continue to subject myself to this mental torture.
JORGFE; Also happy for your SUNDAY EXPERIENCE. I also made it to church on Sunday which was a big breakthrough for me and i wish to continue and not get stuck in a Satanic rut any longer
THERE'S POWER IN THE BLOOD! |
Javagirl
Registered user
Username: Javagirl
Post Number: 150
Registered: 6-2005
| | Posted on Wednesday, February 08, 2006 - 10:04 am: | |
Anotherseeker, Yes I do recall your post, and appreciate your willingness to share openly.
Apparently, I never had that 2 hour conversation with my mother.  . The subsequent conversation did not even mention it. She has sent me some funny emails, and some generic ones in which she mentions that God has always been first in her life. Ill take that for now, as I am in need of resting at the feet of Jesus.
I also have thought about talking for months-and prayed that God would show me WHEN. He did, and the prompting of the Holy Sprit was very clear. I believe you and I will both know the next step as we submit to His timing and Guidance.
JavaGirl |
Colleentinker
Registered user
Username: Colleentinker
Post Number: 3363
Registered: 12-2003
| | Posted on Wednesday, February 08, 2006 - 10:22 am: | |
JavaGirl and Anotherseeker, I'm thanking God right now for what He is doing in each of your lives, especially in relationship to your parents and in your devotion to Jesus first.
You're right, JavaGirl, He will show you both the next step to take. You can rest in Him.
Colleen |
Zjason
Registered user
Username: Zjason
Post Number: 24
Registered: 11-2005
| | Posted on Wednesday, February 08, 2006 - 10:46 am: | |
Recently, my wife has been noticing a change in me, that I am not as happy about going to church. She's grilled me over whether or not I believe as an adventist anymore.. I used to say, "no, it's just that I'm going through a funk, I still believe...", a while ago, when I was asked again by her, I simply stated that I didn't necessarily believe that the adventist church had exclusive rights on God's kingdom, and that I wasn't sure about the sabbath being biblical in this day...She was fairly upset about it, but hadn't brought it up until last Friday night while we were in bed. Discussing this sort of thing before bed doesn't make for a restful night's sleep...
The problem is, I love my wife and children more than anything else, and my wife feels that church was one of the few things we had in common, so if I turn my back on the church, then I turn my back on her...So, I too, understand the trepedation in bucking the system... |
Colleentinker
Registered user
Username: Colleentinker
Post Number: 3367
Registered: 12-2003
| | Posted on Wednesday, February 08, 2006 - 9:07 pm: | |
Jason, praying for you. What you face is so painful and sad and even frightening at a deep level.
Just know that obedience to the steps Jesus reveals at a given moment yields peace and confidence that are missing if one fails to take those steps toward Him. He doesn't ask you to take any step beyond what He makes clear to you at that moment. But it is in the obedience to those small certainties that we find the peace of His care and presence.
Colleen |
Jorgfe
Registered user
Username: Jorgfe
Post Number: 136
Registered: 11-2005
| | Posted on Wednesday, February 08, 2006 - 11:49 pm: | |
Jason -- In my situation I have found it helpful to do a couple of things:
1. Make sure and pray each morning and evening with my wife. Pray that the Holy Spirit will lead both of you into a better understanding of God's Word.
2. Start attending a Bible Study at a non-Adventist Church during the week. That should be easy enough to do. Initially I did it on a week night. I now do it on Sunday morning as well, and attend Bible Study Fellowship on Tuesday nights. Why worship God just one day a week? By respecting my wife's 7th-day Sabbath she can't say that I don't "keep the Sabbath". I just don't go to an SDA church, choosing instead to use the time on Saturday morning for my own personal Bible study. For my 10-year old son I get PrayKids! magazine from http://navpress.com and study it with him here at home. He and I are also working on memorizing Romans 8. He and I have diagrammed it to show the "Law of Sin and Death" and the "Law of the Spirit of Life" and put it on the refrigerator where we can memorize it. We are taking it easy and making it fun. I also try to make Sunday a fun family day, instead of just another work day.
3. Do some independent Bible study on your own. Good subjects are the Seal of God. What does the Bible say it is? That is a very easy one to do just from the Bible. Share what you find from the Bible with your wife. Next read the book of Hebrews through a couple of times. Then read Early Writings, pages 54-55 and try to make any sense of it. Ask yourself, "When did Christ really entered the Most Holy Place (1844 like EGW says, or when Christ returned to Heaven like Hebrews 6:19-20 says)? Share your study results with your wife. My wife was dumbfound at what EGW said in Early Writings 54-55. What is Satan doing in the Holy Place in Heaven if Revelation clearly states he was cast out of Heaven prior to the birth of Christ (Revelation 12) and Christ stays in the Holy Place until 1844? And God the Father has two thrones? My wife then went back to compare it with Hebrews and just shook her head in disbelief at what EGW had written. Any SDAs who question you can also be assigned to figure this one out.
4. State that you feel lead by the Holy Spirit to base everything you believe on the Bible.
In my case, my wife has in the past been trying to figure out whether I am becoming spiritually disinterested (because I quit going to Adventist Church services), or where I stand spiritually. It has been my primary objective to leave no doubt in her mind that I feel a greater sense of spiritual purpose and renewal now than ever before. It is perfectly normal for a spouse to be legitimately concerned about that. As you take the spiritual lead, she will no doubt question and doubt what you are doing. But she must never be able to doubt the genuineness and sincerity of your spiritual renewal. She will follow in time as the Holy Spirit works on her heart. I have seen ample evidence of that in our family.
I still "respect" the Sabbath, out of love for my wife, even though I don't attend Adventist church services any more. Attending a weekly non-Adventist Bible study is a wonderful, non-threatening, way to start associating with Bible-based Christians. It also give you a chance to see how other denominations think. You can share what you study with your wife to the extent she is interested. The objective should be to make sure she has no doubt about the new and exciting spiritual renewal that the Holy Spirit is working in your life. That goes hand-in-hand with sharing with her your discovery that the Seal of God, as the Bible describes it, is actually the Holy Spirit.
Here is a good statement on that subject from a fomer SDA Pastor:
"Replacing the Holy Spirit with the Seventh-day Sabbath
By calling the Sabbath God's seal instead of acknowledging that the Holy Spirit is God's seal, we have come perilously close to blaspheming the Holy Spirit.
I believe that this position is unbiblical and offensive to God. First of all, if the Word of God teaches that the Holy Spirit is the seal of God -- and I believe it does -- then the third person of the Godhead is the rightful owner of that chair. If we have placed the Sabbath -- something that God created -- in God's chair, then we have taken something that God created and placed it in the seat of the Deity.
Whenever we place something God created in the position He claims as His position, we've declared war on God's right to be our God! Our God is a Jealous God! I truly believe that Adventism is in serious danger of blaspheming the Holy Spirit with its traditional teaching regarding the seal of God. Blasphemy against the Holy Spirit is a dangerous place to be! I believe the Sabbath is significant, but the way the church has taught it is wrong, and we need to repent of it."
Gilbert
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Javagirl
Registered user
Username: Javagirl
Post Number: 153
Registered: 6-2005
| | Posted on Friday, February 10, 2006 - 5:34 pm: | |
I shared with a close SDA friend today about my spiritual journey away from the adventist church. He was supportive of me, and even mentioned some oh his own concerns, although he questions new covenant theology. I expected him to be supportive, as he knows of my spiritual sincerity, and knows Im not bitter.
The problem was the same as last time. After a brief feeling of excitement and praise that I am able to boldy proclaim the good news I have discovered, a real unstettling feeling moves in. I cant really describe it except to say I feel agitated and conflicted. It lasted the rest of the afternoon and really disappoints me.
It seems others are able to feel relief, or joy, or something positive, and I just seem to go into a tailspin. I dont doubt Gods leading, I just dont understand the reaction.
When I hear statements that one will feel peace and calmness when they are in God's will, then I question my response even more. I am calm before I talk, and at least 3/4 of the way thru the conversation, and then I start to feel shaky. I just dont get it. I wonder if anyone else has ever had this type of reaction. Even prayer does not bring relief, at least for awhile. I guess I am just asking you all to continue praying that I will be open to Gods leading, and "Guarded by truth" or however you say that Colleen....
Thanks
Java |
Randyg
Registered user
Username: Randyg
Post Number: 109
Registered: 12-2004
| | Posted on Friday, February 10, 2006 - 6:45 pm: | |
Dear Javagirl,
I know the feelings you are describing all to well. The agitation, the conflicted anxiety, even shortness of breath, and dare I say palpations.
I have come to believe this occurs when we know that what we say will make those we care about upset and threatened. What we see as great news, and to us is life changing, actually threatens the belief system and life view of our SDA family and friends. This is what causes the stress responses noted above. This is normal, and is indicative of how caring and sincere you are. It does not indicate a lack of spirituality, and is more the result of our fear of confrontation and a sense of unworthiness.
When I have spoken about my journey and what God has done for me to my non-Adventist Christian friends, none of these stressful responses happen. They are very supportive and frankly fascinated by the story.
Thank-you for sharing this challenge. You are definitely not alone on this one.
Praying for wisdom and peace,
Randy |
Randyg
Registered user
Username: Randyg
Post Number: 110
Registered: 12-2004
| | Posted on Friday, February 10, 2006 - 6:48 pm: | |
Dear Javagirl,
I know the feelings you are describing all to well. The agitation, the conflicted anxiety, even shortness of breath, and dare I say palpations.
I have come to believe this occurs when we know that what we say will make those we care about upset and threatened. What we see as great news, and to us is life changing, actually threatens the belief system and life view of our SDA family and friends. This is what causes the stress responses noted above. This is normal, and is indicative of how caring and sincere you are. It does not indicate a lack of spirituality, and is more the result of our fear of confrontation and a sense of unworthiness.
When I have spoken about my journey and what God has done for me to my non-Adventist Christian friends, none of these stressful responses happen. They are very supportive and frankly fascinated by the story.
Thank-you for sharing this challenge. You are definitely not alone on this one.
Praying for wisdom and peace,
Randy |
Randyg
Registered user
Username: Randyg
Post Number: 111
Registered: 12-2004
| | Posted on Friday, February 10, 2006 - 7:33 pm: | |
Sorry about the double post. Again I submit the technological neanderthal moniker is deserved. Randy |
Wooliee
Registered user
Username: Wooliee
Post Number: 56
Registered: 6-2005
| | Posted on Friday, February 10, 2006 - 8:46 pm: | |
Praying for you Javagirl. You are a true child of God and He is definitely guarding you and doing a great work in you. It shows. Thank you for the help and wisdom you've shown me.
Great advice Randy.
Julie |
Cindy
Registered user
Username: Cindy
Post Number: 793
Registered: 7-2000
| | Posted on Saturday, February 11, 2006 - 10:19 am: | |
Javagirl, I relate well with your feelings... I've felt that literal shakiness, (almost feeling faint), and then obsesssing over and over on what was said in the last conversation.
It does get better slowly, gradually.
For so many years I just tried to keep going on living within the Adventist system--that old cognitive dissonance living--focusing on what I could agree with and ignoring the rest. When that finally became impossible, it still took a tremendous amount of courage to stand up and speak out my true beliefs to parents whom I love and don't want to hurt..
Only Jesus can give me that humble boldness.
As someone else said here, I also feel this trauma we feel when we disagree with Adventism is an indication that Adventism was really begun--and is now sustained-- by an Evil spirit.
The fruit of GOD's SPIRIT is love, joy, peace, patience, kindness, gentleness, and self-control! (Galations 5).
grace always,
cindy |
Javagirl
Registered user
Username: Javagirl
Post Number: 154
Registered: 6-2005
| | Posted on Saturday, February 11, 2006 - 12:27 pm: | |
Randy and Julie, thanks for praying.
Randy you said "When I have spoken about my journey and what God has done for me to my non-Adventist Christian friends, none of these stressful responses happen. They are very supportive and frankly fascinated by the story.
Thank you for that, which was God given to me. That has certainly been my experience. In fact I get excited telling the story to non-SDA's, and often get overwhelmed with love for my Savior while talking about it.
I would think if I was speaking an untruth, that I would feel that anxiety in all settings. Thanks for the distinction, the more I reflect on it, the more true it is.
Java
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Flyinglady
Registered user
Username: Flyinglady
Post Number: 2295
Registered: 3-2004
| | Posted on Saturday, February 11, 2006 - 12:50 pm: | |
I do not have dyed in the wool SDA relatives with whom I am close. The SDA friends I have, have been very nice.
When I tell my new Christian friends about my back ground they are very sympathetic and they pray with me and for me and my SDA friends and relatives.
I some times think I am fortunate that both my parents are dead and that my sisters have not said anything to me about my leaving the "Church".
But that does not mean that I cannot pray for all of you that are having difficulties with your SDA families and friends. I do pray for each of you.
I know God is awesome and He will take care of each of us, even our SDA family and friends.
Diana |
Colleentinker
Registered user
Username: Colleentinker
Post Number: 3387
Registered: 12-2003
| | Posted on Saturday, February 11, 2006 - 11:43 pm: | |
JavaGirl, I totally understand your reaction. I agree with Cindyóthis anxiety that results from sharing with Adventists confirms that Adventism is sustained by an evil spirit.
Very recently we had an experience with some Adventist relatives who were in our home. Richard and I were discussing a book they had given us to read, and at some point one of them stood up, eyes blazing, and said, "Satan lives in this house. I'm leaving!"óand so saying, walked out.
After the shock subsided, I realized that the person's analysis really represented the diamterically opposed bases of Adventism and Biblical Christianityóthey just got it backwards!
Praying for you, JavaGirl.
Colleen |
Snowboardingmom
Registered user
Username: Snowboardingmom
Post Number: 36
Registered: 11-2005
| | Posted on Sunday, February 12, 2006 - 8:06 am: | |
Hi JavaGirl,
I've been really sick since Thursday night, so am now just catching up on this thread. Today has finally been a turn around for me, in that I feel "normal" again. My husband, when he saw me feeling better, said "I think worrying about your parents coming didn't help your immune system any." (It's the first time we're seeing them since our "coming out"). I think he's right, because I have NEVER been as sick as I was these last 4 days. I had a fever between 103.5-103.8 that I couldn't get to break for two days. I ended up with viral bronchitis (that I had been fighting all week but it progressively got worse), a bladder infection, and then finishing off with the stomach flu.
The reason I'm giving you a breakdown of my ailments isn't for sympathy, but to let you know that I believe and understand how it could physically affect you. Your heart may be totally bold and willing -- but your body's reaction (that agitation and icky feeling) may just be a natural physiologic response that will take awhile to "retrain". But I believe in your heart you do have a peace and calmness you're looking for. I can tell when I read your posts, that your heart is overcome with joy and yes, a peace. It may just be hard to feel the peace when your body's trained response (which seems to kick in about 3/4 into the conversation for you) is physiologically telling you otherwise. I work in the medical field, and it's amazing how our body reacts. One of the people I work with tells me that once a year, she'll wake up nauseous and starting vomitting. Even when she doesn't know the exact date, she'll know after she realizes how she's feeling. She feels this way every year on the anniversary of her husbands death. There have been studies that have confirmed this theory too.
I'm praying for you, JavaGirl. Don't doubt your heart though -- I know you feel the peace. For you to feel peace through the beginning and the majority of the conversation (3/4), I know it's there. It's just a matter of getting your body to realize what your heart is saying .
By the way, ironically, even though I was totally miserable and hated life this last 4 days, it was the first time I wasn't stressing about my parents visiting. I was too sick to care. So it actually ended up being a blessing, in a wierd sort of way. Maybe that's what I needed to keep things in perspective. I'm not sure, but in a wierd way, it worked out good in that sense. |
Colleentinker
Registered user
Username: Colleentinker
Post Number: 3393
Registered: 12-2003
| | Posted on Sunday, February 12, 2006 - 6:57 pm: | |
Snowboardingmom, I am so sorry you've been so sick. What you're saying is absolutely true. I've no doubt your severe illness was exacerbated the coming visit.
I'm praying for you and your husband.
Colleen |
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