| Author |
Message |
Colleentinker
Registered user
Username: Colleentinker
Post Number: 3569
Registered: 12-2003
| | Posted on Sunday, March 19, 2006 - 9:25 pm: |     |
Dennis, that's interesting. Hmmm...
I wonder if it will stay down?
Colleen
|
Susan_2
Registered user
Username: Susan_2
Post Number: 2149
Registered: 11-2002
| | Posted on Sunday, March 19, 2006 - 9:35 pm: | |
Violet, You stated it exactially as I understand it. I, too take it literally, to mean exactially as it is stated. |
Windmotion
Registered user
Username: Windmotion
Post Number: 287
Registered: 6-2001
| | Posted on Sunday, March 19, 2006 - 10:32 pm: | |
I am suspicious of any organization that has unnecessary apostrophes in its material. (Colleen you would understand) Official PIN'S anyone?
Grammatically,
Hannah |
Chris
Registered user
Username: Chris
Post Number: 1162
Registered: 7-2003
| | Posted on Monday, March 20, 2006 - 6:59 am: | |
John, we rejoice with you you! Praise the Lord! Isn't it a great feeling?
I can remember how I felt like the weight of the world come off my shoulders the day I drove to the post office and dropped that envelope in the mail box. I watched that letter get swallowed up by the darkness of the box and then I drove away into the bright sunny day. I couldn't help but feel the whole exercise was symbolic of something Christ had already done in my life. Praise the Lord!
Chris |
Susan_2
Registered user
Username: Susan_2
Post Number: 2150
Registered: 11-2002
| | Posted on Monday, March 20, 2006 - 7:59 am: | |
John, How about sharing more of your story? |
Jackob
Registered user
Username: Jackob
Post Number: 140
Registered: 7-2005
| | Posted on Monday, March 20, 2006 - 8:25 am: | |
Have anyone some advice for someone who gave the pastor his letter of resignation mentioned IJ and Sabbath as the main motives for resignation, but the pastor refuses to pay attention to it?
This is my case. Saturday morning, the pastor came to me and said that he found no reason to answer positively my request. |
Helovesme2
Registered user
Username: Helovesme2
Post Number: 452
Registered: 8-2004
| | Posted on Monday, March 20, 2006 - 8:31 am: | |
Tell him it is not a request. It is your choice?
Mary |
Helovesme2
Registered user
Username: Helovesme2
Post Number: 453
Registered: 8-2004
| | Posted on Monday, March 20, 2006 - 8:39 am: | |
I guess that was a little abrupt. My suggestion (which you of course can take or leave) would be to tell him that you were not asking permission to resign. But rather stating that because you do not agree with the fundamental beliefs of the SDA church you are choosing to resign rather than remain a member hypocritically. Whether they choose to accept your resignation or not is their choice. Sometimes they DO and sometimes they don't. That does not need to have any bearing on your own newfound freedom.
Blessings (and prayers),
Mary |
Violet
Registered user
Username: Violet
Post Number: 336
Registered: 2-2001
| | Posted on Monday, March 20, 2006 - 10:39 am: | |
Mary, Why would they want to keep someone on the books who is in "babylon"? (according to their definition) It's almost like an abusive old boyfriend that if they can't have you ain't nobody gonna have ya |
Leigh
Registered user
Username: Leigh
Post Number: 74
Registered: 2-2003
| | Posted on Monday, March 20, 2006 - 10:50 am: | |
Excerpt from "Free" by Stephen Curtis Chapman
*****
Oh, we're free, oh, we have been forgiven
God's grace has broken every chain and given us these wings
And we're free, yeah, yeah, and the freedom we've been given
Is something that not even death can take from you and me
Because we're free, yeah, the freedom we've been given
Is something that not even death can take from you and me
Because we're free, oh, we're free
We are free, we are free
The Son has set us free
If the Son has set you free
You are free indeed!!!
******
Thank you Jesus!
Leigh |
Windmotion
Registered user
Username: Windmotion
Post Number: 288
Registered: 6-2001
| | Posted on Monday, March 20, 2006 - 12:33 pm: | |
Speaking of songs ...
Great song, Leigh. I love songs about freedom! Here is another one I have been really enjoying. The lyrics don't do it justice.
Newsboys - I Am Free
From the album I Am Free
Through you the blind will see
Through you the mute will sing
Through you the dead will rise
Through you our hearts will praise
Through you the darkness flees
Through you my heart screams I am free
I am free
Chorus: (2xís)
I am free to run
(I am free to run)
I am free to dance
(I am free to dance)
I am free to live for you
(I am free to live for you)
I am free
(I am free)
Yes, I am free
(I am free)
Through you the blind will see
Through you the mute will sing
Through you the dead will rise
Through you our hearts will praise
Through you the darkness flees
Through you my heart screams I am free
I am free
Are you free?
I am free
Freely,
Hannah |
Colleentinker
Registered user
Username: Colleentinker
Post Number: 3576
Registered: 12-2003
| | Posted on Monday, March 20, 2006 - 1:18 pm: | |
Yes HannahóI, too am free; free from spiritual bondage, free from unnecessary apostrophes...I totally share your reaction!
Jackob, I agree with Mary. Your resignation is your choice, and if they fail to "grant" it, you are still free. They can keep your name on the books, but they can't keep you in the church or prevent you from becoming a member of another congregation. I believe it is unusual for an Adventist pastor to sit with someone in a position such as yours and try to "understand". Generally, they feel threatened by your stance, and they avoid deep interaction.
I'm not surprised your pastor reacted as he did. I personally suggest that you go about what you would have done had he "granted" you your request. As Mary suggested, I do think it would be appropriate to let him know that your choice to leave stands regardless of his "permission" or lack of it.
Colleen |
Riverfonz
Registered user
Username: Riverfonz
Post Number: 1441
Registered: 3-2005
| | Posted on Monday, March 20, 2006 - 2:46 pm: | |
Dear JohnL,
Congratulations on submitting your resignation. I am so happy for you. You have been an inspiring addition to our FAF Bible study. I look forward to seeing you more here on the forum as well.
Stan |
Dennis
Registered user
Username: Dennis
Post Number: 628
Registered: 4-2000
| | Posted on Monday, March 20, 2006 - 9:37 pm: | |
Jackob,
Under American law, for example, everyone has the legal right to discontinue membership in any organization (political, religious, educational, labor union, etc.).
However, even in Romania, it is best to inform them of YOUR final decision and not solicit their approval. Make it very clear to them that YOU are no longer a Seventh-day Adventist and that you are simply providing them the courtesy of this information. Therefore, you can tell them, they obviously would not want to have a non-Adventist as a member. Also, inform them to immediately discontinue all correspondence, literature, newsletters, promotional appeals, magazines, etc. from entering your mailbox in your name.
After finding out your explicit intent, I find it hard to conceive that they would want you to be a member any longer. These requests to remove one's membership should be very brief and concise (doctrinal details are not needed). They quickly sense that it is too late for further dialogue.
Dennis Fischer |
Zjason
Registered user
Username: Zjason
Post Number: 35
Registered: 11-2005
| | Posted on Tuesday, March 21, 2006 - 5:49 pm: | |
I think I read in the church manuel that addresses the situation of people asking to terminate their membership. In essence, there is no quick action to take a person off the books in case the person decides to come to his senses and realize his mistake. So I suppose that is why the churches usually drag their feet on discontinuing membership.... |
Violet
Registered user
Username: Violet
Post Number: 341
Registered: 2-2001
| | Posted on Wednesday, March 22, 2006 - 7:24 am: | |
Zjason, that would make since, as when we left I was warned by a "loving' brother not to say anything that I might be embarrassed about later if I chose to come back. At the time I was declaring my freedom in Christ, that Ellen was not a prophet, and that the sabbath was not a requirement for salvation. |
Jackob
Registered user
Username: Jackob
Post Number: 142
Registered: 7-2005
| | Posted on Wednesday, March 22, 2006 - 9:59 am: | |
I want to thank everyone here who said something useful. But still I don't know what to do. My goal is to make clear to the adventist church my current position, that I'm no longer a SDA, that I don't believe in what they believe.
But like Violet said, one elder at my church gave me the same warning, not to say anything that I might be embarrased when I will choose to come back. He knew that 1 year and a half ago, I had renounced my belief in Ellen White and IJ and planned to leave the church. But after some time I swallowed my disbelief, and returned.
Now he believes that the situation is the same. Actually, perhaps my pastor believe that I'm not serious because, at my wife's request, I still attend the sda church.
If I remember correctly, Ric stayed in the church until his wife found the truth. At this moment, this is my goal, to stay until she will found the truth. But I'm not sure if I'll be taken seriously about my leaving. To be taken serious, it seems that I need to openly challenge the sda belief at sabbath school. This surely will terminate my membership. I'm not so good in confrontational situations,and this will surely upset me a lot. |
Colleentinker
Registered user
Username: Colleentinker
Post Number: 3598
Registered: 12-2003
| | Posted on Wednesday, March 22, 2006 - 11:18 am: | |
Jackob,you cannot convince them to take you seriously. Even if you write letters and speak up in Sabbath School, they may "get rid of you" to preserve their own comfort, but they will likely not take you seriously.
If God is leading you to continue attending with your wife, at least for now, ask Him to show you how to act and what to say. He will be faithful to use you to honor Him regardless of where you are. He might keep you silent; He might give you words to say to defend Jesus and the cross. Whether or not the church really believes your conviction must be of secondary importance right now.
The church leaders are in a certain amount of denial. Even if you tell them what you believe, they will find ways to rationalize what you say so they don't have to take your truth seriously. Just as they have perpetuated the myth that DM Canright returned to Adventism before he died (I learned that in school as did countless others), he did not recant. Adventists are expert at hearing people speak truthfully but refusing to "accept" what you believe as real.
One man wrote us a letter saying he was still attending the SDA church for the sake of his wife. He has been open about no longer believing Adventism, Ellen, etc., yet they continue to ask him to teach a Sabbath School class. He uses only the Bible, and if anyone uses an Ellen reference, he insists on a Bible text as proof. He said he had great distress over this situation until the Holy Spirit convinced him to "suffer in his present place" for now.
Only God knows the stance you should take at this particular time in your particular church, Jackob. How the members and pastors perceive you is not the most important consideration. They WILL twist the facts to suit themselves. God, though, is using you. He will show you what to say and do.
Colleen |
Violet
Registered user
Username: Violet
Post Number: 345
Registered: 2-2001
| | Posted on Wednesday, March 22, 2006 - 11:31 am: | |
Jackob, Colleen is right on when she councils you to submit to the Holy Spirit on what to do. He will let you know what to do and say. One of the key ingrediants in me coming to my revelation on SDA was my husband asking me over and over again where I could back up that statement in the Bible. It took ten years but praise Jesus it did take. |
