| Author |
Message |
Cathy2
Registered user
Username: Cathy2
Post Number: 155
Registered: 2-2006
| | Posted on Tuesday, June 20, 2006 - 11:54 am: |     |
Leigh Anne,
I'm so sorry about you having to deal with the 'SDA vs. you' thing. SDA's are raised with the paradigm of 'us vs. them' (everyone on the planet), so it is not surprising; but it is wounding to you. Know that, here, there are many others--Formers, too, not jsut non-SDA's--who have been and are, still, on the receving end of that attitude and the silly questions (Lutherans do not venerate Mary, for instance. Or my SDA sister doesn't like Lutheran pastors wearing robes--vestments).
My sister is Catholic and she goes through questions like your mil asks, for decades, too. I can say that many Catholics do not beleive in Mary as Co-redemptrix; and veneration does not mean worship; it means respect and honor, like Mary prophesied about herself: "All generations shall call me blessed." Episcopalians, High Anglicans and the Eastern Orthodox church resepct Mary for her role in carrying the son of God and saying "Yes" to Gabriel and God, as well, so it isn't just a 'Catholic thing' (as my niece calls some stuff) Without Mary, there would ahve been no incarnation and cross. As someone said, "she is our only boast". Because she said "Let it be done unto me accroding to thy will".
If your mil says she beleives in scripture, there are a couple of verses about Mary to give her, if you want to. Perhaps, she might be quiet about it, afterwards, and bring peace. One can hope. 
Some of my SDA family proclaim 'sola scriptura' (even as they read and beleive in EGW), giving me many verses in email; so I, mostly, just email them back verses about grace and the power of God, not me (or whatever is applicable, like the above), without saying anything else. Arguement is useless.
At any rate, know that you are among people, who understand. I pray that you and your own, little family keep happy, at peace and in love in spite of the in-laws. I understand how your husband doesn't want to hurt them, but it is his life with you and the kids, now, is it not? Parents must let go and allow their grown children to make their own life and choices, without controlling them with parental hurt feelings.
Leave and cleave....
With heart & prayers,
Cathy |
Cw
Registered user
Username: Cw
Post Number: 96
Registered: 4-2006
| | Posted on Tuesday, June 20, 2006 - 12:33 pm: | |
Without starting a new thread I have a question---again. Many churches-and I'm thinking SDA is one of them-require Baptism to join the church even though a person was previously baptized. In Dale Ratzlaff's book The Truth About Seventh-Day Adventist "Truth" on page 32 he quotes part of a vow that must be taken during the baptismal procedure. To me it's a very scary vow and appears to be more a vow to church and EGW loyalty than a public confession of salvation. I asked my daughter once if she was prepared to take such a vile vow and she rather smugly reminded me that she had been baptized less than a year ago in the Bible believing church where she now works part time and attends. Therefore she feels she will not have to be baptized again if she marries into SDA.
My question is: Would the SDA church require baptism of her prior to marriage or joining a local congregation? Even if she would not be required to I asked if she would urge her future children (my grand children) to take that vow. She avoids answering that she thinks it is or is not vile. When she was baptised recently it was a beautiful service in which she proclaimed her salvation and spoke of her love for the Lord.
Should the subject ever come up again I would like to speak from a more informed position as to SDA practices. I know that this is the place to get those facts. CW |
Raven
Registered user
Username: Raven
Post Number: 491
Registered: 7-2004
| | Posted on Tuesday, June 20, 2006 - 12:59 pm: | |
As long as someone has already been baptized by immersion, the SDA church does not require a person to be baptized again to become a member of the SDA church. Instead, they become a member by "Profession of Faith." It would be agreeing to the very same vows as the baptismal vows, which includes the objectionable ones. However, some SDA pastors get around that (probably because they recognize it's the only way to maintain the numbers nowadays), by having a brief list or more generic type of vows. For example, they might ask if the candidate believes the teachings of the SDA church, and/or if they believe the SDA church has a special message for the world, etc. I know when my husband (Ric_b) was baptized into the SDA church before we married, he argued vehemently about some of the vows shortly before hand and refused to sign. They baptized him anyway because they wanted the numbers and it had already been announced he was being baptized. |
Grace_alone
Registered user
Username: Grace_alone
Post Number: 12
Registered: 6-2006
| | Posted on Tuesday, June 20, 2006 - 10:21 pm: | |
Hello again Friends,
Cathy, thanks for commiserating! Most of the time we get along great, but there are those weird times that I just wish I had a degree in apologetics! Regarding the "Mary" issue, I've seen those bumper stickers that say "No Mary, no Jesus" (I think that's the way it goes). But my answer to that is that there'd be no Mary if it weren't for Jesus being there from the beginning. Just a side note.
CW, I'm sorry about your daughter. That's such a tough age! You're entering adulthood, and yet you're still making stupid kid mistakes. Now that I'm a parent I can understand your position, as well as my in-laws in retrospect (Although I still don't agree with them). I think if you just continue to love on her, as well as raising questions on the most questionable issues (like soul-sleep, Sunday keepers having the mark of the beast, and EGW false prophesies) you'll plant some powerful seeds. One thing that makes me the angriest is when EGW wrote that God doesn't love disobedient children. So on one hand God says love your enemies, but He won't love disobedient children?? Also, it's well known that EGW plagerized 80% of her books (without giving credit). So in other words you can break commandment # 8, but you may never break # 4, or you'll get the mark of the beast. SHEESH!
The biggest issue with me is that I don't feel that we connect in the most intimate way for me, spiritually. It's getting better now that my husband attends church with me, but I still worry. Although, my parents attended our church since 1948, but my Dad didn't start showing his spiritual side until about 10 years ago. So I have hope!
I did want to mention about my kids. My bro-in-law is an SDA Pastor, and someone who I think actually "gets it" when it comes to Grace and Salvation. Or at least comes very close. Out of respect of my in-laws we had him dedicate each of our kids at the SDA church. I wanted to stand up in front of everyone to declare that we would raise our children in the Christian faith. We didn't sign anything or take vows other than the very generic belief in Jesus as our Savior, etc. As a kind gesture our in-laws came to my church when we had the kids baptized. I'm sure it was uncomfortable for them, and I appreciated them coming. I don't regret any of that. We've continued on at our Lutheran church ever since, except for special occasions.
I will pray for you! |
Jeremy
Registered user
Username: Jeremy
Post Number: 1354
Registered: 10-2004
| | Posted on Wednesday, June 21, 2006 - 3:24 pm: | |
Leigh Anne,
Actually, in at least one "vision" of hers, EGW even denies that we are supposed to love our enemies!
quote:"Then I saw that Jesus prayed for his enemies; but that should not cause us or lead us to pray for the wicked world, whom God had rejected -- when he prayed for his enemies, there was hope for them, and they could be benefitted and saved by his prayers, and also after he was a mediator in the outer apartment for the whole world; but now his spirit and sympathy were withdrawn from the world; and our sympathy must be with Jesus, and must be withdrawn from the ungodly.... I saw that the wicked could not be benefitted by our prayers now... Then I saw that scripture did not mean the wicked whom God had rejected that we must love, but he meant our neighbors in the household, and did not extend beyond the household; yet I saw that we should not do the wicked around us any injustice; -- But, our neighbors whom we were to love, were those who loved God and were serving him.
(Signed) E. G. White." (The Camden Vision, Camden, N. Y. June 29, 1851.)
And of course the "wicked world" she was referring to included the Christian church, the Body of Christ--which was supposedly headed for hell because they had rejected the false date-setting predictions of 1843 and 1844!
Jeremy
(Message edited by Jeremy on June 21, 2006) |
Grace_alone
Registered user
Username: Grace_alone
Post Number: 17
Registered: 6-2006
| | Posted on Wednesday, June 21, 2006 - 4:26 pm: | |
Hi Jeremy -
The devil you say! (No joke, huh?)
I forgot about the "Shut door" policy. Give me a break! That should have been a big blaring red sign from the beginning.
I wonder which book she stole that idea from.
Doesn't it say somewhere in the OT that false prophets should be stoned to death??
Oh I know I'm bad sometimes...Leigh Anne |
Colleentinker
Registered user
Username: Colleentinker
Post Number: 4201
Registered: 12-2003
| | Posted on Wednesday, June 21, 2006 - 5:37 pm: | |
Leigh Anne, you're right. Thanks for that quote, Jeremy. The reality of Ellen's teachings leave me out of breath...
Colleen |
Grace_alone
Registered user
Username: Grace_alone
Post Number: 19
Registered: 6-2006
| | Posted on Wednesday, June 21, 2006 - 7:49 pm: | |
Colleen, I'm honored - I enjoy reading all your posts and appreciate your kindness to this newbie!
Bless you ~
My husband used to just laugh at me when I'd say that EGW should've been stoned, haha. |
Cw
Registered user
Username: Cw
Post Number: 99
Registered: 4-2006
| | Posted on Thursday, June 22, 2006 - 6:20 am: | |
Grace Alone, great photo choice. CW |
Grace_alone
Registered user
Username: Grace_alone
Post Number: 21
Registered: 6-2006
| | Posted on Thursday, June 22, 2006 - 2:54 pm: | |
Ha! Thanks Cw. I want to be an Austrian Nun when I grow up.
hehehe! Just kidding. |
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