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Message |
Asurprise
Registered user
Username: Asurprise
Post Number: 100
Registered: 7-2007
| | Posted on Wednesday, August 01, 2007 - 12:22 pm: |     |
I agree with Jim that there is GREAT DANGER trying to contact spirits of the dead. That's a way to contact the devil and his angels!!! |
Reb
Registered user
Username: Reb
Post Number: 478
Registered: 5-2007
| | Posted on Wednesday, August 01, 2007 - 12:33 pm: | |
That's why the Bible says don't do it.
I believe the spirits of the dead do exist, why would the Bible warn us not to contact something that doesn't exist?
I am on the side of the fence that believes in the immortality of the soul, I do believe the Adevntist doctrine on the State of the Dead IS a denial of the resurrection. Recreation amounts to "cloning" not resurrection. A "new" being that is made to think it's you is NOT you no matter how much it is like you.
SO Adventists go through all this stuff just for the "slim" probably .001% hope of passing the Investigative Judgement just so a "clone" of them that's not really them can have eternal life.
They have no more hope of an afterlife than an atheist does!
Even when I was deep into Adventism and beleved all the other doctrines I could NOT accept the state of the dead doctrine of Adventism. I figured it out right away for what it was, a denial of the resurrection. If you don't exist, you can't await anything. Something that doesn't exist can't be resurrected.
I am scratching my head wondering if I knew that was false from the get-go WHY did it take me until last year to question the rest of Adventism? |
Jeremy
Registered user
Username: Jeremy
Post Number: 2008
Registered: 10-2004
| | Posted on Wednesday, August 01, 2007 - 1:32 pm: | |
Leigh Anne,
You asked: "I have another question, do Adventists belive that evil spirits are just memories? If there are evil spirits, then there aught to be is a spirit world. Do Adventists believe there is a spirit world?"
Adventism teaches that evil spirits, and also holy angels, are actually physical beings and are not spirits. They believe that they have (are!) bodies of flesh, just like they believe humans are.
EGW even gave detailed descriptions of Satan's appearance, including his "flesh" and "chin" and "forehead," etc.
Jeremy |
Jeremy
Registered user
Username: Jeremy
Post Number: 2009
Registered: 10-2004
| | Posted on Wednesday, August 01, 2007 - 1:36 pm: | |
Zjason,
Here is a link to a previous post of mine, where I talked about the SDA argument about Jesus not having ascended to the Father:
http://64.226.233.122/cgi-bin/discus/board-auth.cgi?file=/4529/5656.html#POST75423
Jeremy |
Grace_alone
Registered user
Username: Grace_alone
Post Number: 723
Registered: 6-2006
| | Posted on Wednesday, August 01, 2007 - 2:44 pm: | |
Jeremy,
I'm not surprised at all that Ellen knew what Satan looks like.
Thanks for the explaination.
 Leigh Anne |
Colleentinker
Registered user
Username: Colleentinker
Post Number: 6448
Registered: 12-2003
| | Posted on Wednesday, August 01, 2007 - 8:46 pm: | |
To add to the confusion, Leigh Anne, Adventists do believe in "evil spirits" which are "demons"--at the same time they believe that these evil angels have bodies. Adventists are actually quite aware of evil spirits' existence and fear them.
In retropect, it fascinates me that they focus so much on the possibility that the dead will appear and try to communicate with them. This fear is confusing in itself, because generally Adventists believe that if a dead person came back, it really wouldn't be that person; it would be an evil spirit.
They have set up a straw-man argument that says if the dead have spirits that live on after death, then it would be possible for evil spirits to mimic the dead and deceive people. If the dead do not have spirits, then evil spirits can never deceive a person into believing a posthumous appearing is really that person. Such an "appearing" would be instantly recognized as a demon. (Convoluted, huh?)
2 Corinthians 5 and Philippians 1:22-23 really clarify that dying and going to be with the Lord is very much better than staying in the body. The Ecclesiastes 9:5 passage is in the context of a person without God in his life stating how hopeless life is. It is not, in context, a declaration of reality. It is a declaration of the hopelessness of a life lived without God. In verse 9, in fact, it talks about enjoying what you can while you can "all the days of this meaningless life". Adventists never look at that verse and consider it an eternal fact that a person's days are meaningless.
BTW, Jim, the New Bible Dictionary by InterVarsity Press says, in its entry under "Spirit, Holy Spirit", it says that the NT word pneuma, which is translated "spirit" is used "nearly 40 times to denote that dimension of the human personality whereby relationship with God is possible (Mk2:8; Acts 7:59; Rom 1:9;8:16; 1 Cor 5:3-5; 1 Thes 5:23; Jas. 2:26). Sightly more frequent is the sense of unclean, evil, demonic spirit, a power which man experiences as an affliction, an injurious limitation to full relationship with God and with his fellows…Occasionally there is reference to heavely (good) spirits…But by far the most frequent reference in the NT is to the Spirit of God, the Holy Spirit (more than 250 times)."
The same word, pneuma, is used to refer to the Holy Spirit, to angels, to demons, and to human spirits. The human spirit can't be a completely unrelated "thing" when the same word is used of all spiritual beings.
John 4:24: "God is spirit, and his worshipers must worship in spirit and in truth."
Colleen |
Colleentinker
Registered user
Username: Colleentinker
Post Number: 6449
Registered: 12-2003
| | Posted on Wednesday, August 01, 2007 - 8:46 pm: | |
BTW, Honestwitness, I loved your play on my typo! Very true!
Colleen |
Grace_alone
Registered user
Username: Grace_alone
Post Number: 724
Registered: 6-2006
| | Posted on Wednesday, August 01, 2007 - 9:40 pm: | |
Am I understanding right that to an Adventist anything spiritual is evil?
Also, what does John 4:24 mean to an Adventist?
I'm sorry for all the questions! I guess I'm trying to understand my SDA family, and any questions that may come up from my husband.
Those of you who still hold to soul sleep, what does the spirit mean to you?
In love,
Leigh Anne |
Colleentinker
Registered user
Username: Colleentinker
Post Number: 6453
Registered: 12-2003
| | Posted on Wednesday, August 01, 2007 - 10:44 pm: | |
Leigh Anne, I don't think it's accurate to say that Adventists believe anything "spiritual" is "evil". They believe God is "spiritual" and that relating to Him is "spiritual". They just have a hard time explaining what that "spirit" is. They acknowledge the Holy Spirit, although the new birth is nebulous to them.
As an Adventist, John 4:24 was a passage I "slid over" without really defining. Worshiping in "spirit", to me, meant somehow my heart (whatever that actually was: emotions, my deepest self, etc.) was to be involved in worship. In other words, I rather loosely thought of that idea meaning I had to do more than intellectually believe; I had to "be committed".
But I didn't ever know how to connect "God is Spirit" with my needing to "worship in spirit". Until about three or four years ago or so, I didn't actually see that my spirit and God's being Spirit were somehow similar. I thought of it all as some sort of figurative language, like a metaphor or analgoy, etc. It was confusing.
Colleen |
Jim02
Registered user
Username: Jim02
Post Number: 172
Registered: 5-2007
| | Posted on Thursday, August 02, 2007 - 1:32 pm: | |
I realize we are offering up assorted thoughts here.
It occurs to me that a lot of accepting or rejecting ideas or interpretations involves understanding the very words we use to express an idea or thought. This also includes the words used in the Bible as well. The Bible being static is not subject to questioning. Only interpretation and constructive conjectures.
Take Spirit and Soul. I have seen many definitions of those words. Depending on the use of the words, you come away with entirely different takes.
I consider that soul means the individual in total.
But others say Soul or Spirit mean the breath of life. Some say it is the inward life force being , ghost if you please, the continuity of existance to eternal life.
Thus , are we suggesting that the soul is imortal no matter what? See Hell studies: Eternal punishments.
Are we cloned? A clone is a copy. I admitt that.
But we are talking new bodys anyway.
The concern seems to be about the soul being continous, thus by definition eternal and un-interupted.
If this is the case, why is there no account of activity while dead from the various people who were restored to life? It is not mentioned.
The Out of Body experience is never mentioned except in non biblical reports.
I have often thought that my self awareness (consciousness) (I think , thus I exist) , that quality of life that is a portal to the universe. Aware of ones soul and life. I think this is of and from God. Can I define it? No. But I am aware of it. That facet of being, perhaps this is a soul energy of continuity that God preserves.
Pragmatically speaking. This is the part where no one picked up on before. That brain on your shoulders is the processor of your thoughts.
For all practical purposes, it is the conduit to your soul. Garbage in / garbage out. Sow /Reap.
Understanding, Knowledge, Growth, Experience. It is all in that brain. When the brain dies, the content depolarizes.
So to maintain the soul theory. You get to take with you what you invested and somehow the organized thoughts of the brain live on in an either of a ghost. Organized energy.
So you have to build elaborate constructs to support either soul status theory. One is recorded or maintained in Gods keeping, the other is self contained in a soul that exists someplace. |
Colleentinker
Registered user
Username: Colleentinker
Post Number: 6458
Registered: 12-2003
| | Posted on Thursday, August 02, 2007 - 4:33 pm: | |
Truly, Jim, the details are not revealed, and we are not expected to identify the details of the spirit.
What we have is the Bible's words that it is better to depart and be with the Lord, that "we" live in mortal tents, and in Revelation we have the texts that refer to the souls under the altar asking how long God would wait to bring justice, etc.
Some things we have to accept without totally understanding them. I don't begin to think I can describe exactly what our spirits are. But if God is Spirit, and we have spirits that worship Him (John 4:24), then I cannot assume that our spirits are simply data maintained in God's memory. God's Spirit would, therefore, have to be similar.
I cannot know these things in detail. I can only believe that the spirit in me that worships God is the same spirit that goes to be with Him when the mortal tent dies. What that "looks like", I don't know. But I do know the Bible says that happens, and the Bible also suggests strongly that something other than stored data is in Jesus!
I understand your struggle with these ideas, though--the interesting thing is that, with time, as we stay immersed in Bible study and submission to the Lord Jesus, more and more of these tensions seem "resolved", even if we don't objectively "know".
Just think, Jim, of where you "were" nine months ago. Wouldn't you agree that a great many dissonances and mysteries you pondered make some sense now? That sort of resolution will continue to occur.
Colleen |
Jim02
Registered user
Username: Jim02
Post Number: 173
Registered: 5-2007
| | Posted on Friday, August 03, 2007 - 7:45 am: | |
Colleen,
You wrote:
in Bible study and submission to the Lord Jesus, more and more of these tensions seem "resolved", even if we don't objectively "know".
This of course is the problem. Objective confirmation of our interpretations and theorys.
As you know, I am simply trying to get the basics (doctrine and reality) in place. I find I can't even do that very well.
You wrote:
Just think, Jim, of where you "were" nine months ago. Wouldn't you agree that a great many dissonances and mysteries you pondered make some sense now? That sort of resolution will continue to occur.
I suppose I am a slow learner. Because, I am not in resonnace with anything as yet.
Frankly, scripture is so disjointed, I am having a hard time reaching conviction on any doctrine.
Because there are too many opposing views and people plucking definitions out of thin air sometimes. Others cite references that are obscure or minimal and try to build an entire reality on it.
Most of all, logic often fails to hold in place in some of these doctrine beliefs.
The main ones:
1:That unsure conviction over the 10C. Broken continuity under the NC. Besides Paul. No one else sets it (10C) aside. The common sense assumption of "what was written by God's own hand" is somehow in of itself , safe to dismiss. divide, suspend, exempt.
2: Eternal , continious Hell.
3: Ghosts, Soul consciousness.
I go over the same ground, hoping that it will dawn on me. Hoping I will be able to get it.
But the fact is, I still do not have conviction on teh basics. I still feel like I am sinning, NO MATTER which way I go. I cannot get out of the way. This frustration is leading me to despair in trying to make even basic sense out of this blender theology.
River, don't even say it
It is not all bad. I feel I am making progress , and I believe I am learning things. It is just that I am not seeing what the picture is just yet.
I am still lost in the forest of bits and pieces and it is very hard for me to form a whole picture in my mind. Too many doctribal assumptions require a lot of underlying support to take the next step. So her I am tryng to keep all the gears in play to even get to the next assumption level. Thus , the doubts keep recurring.
When the catepillar tried to figure out how he walks, he couldn't walk. |
Larry
Registered user
Username: Larry
Post Number: 56
Registered: 5-2007
| | Posted on Friday, August 03, 2007 - 8:13 am: | |
Jim,
Maybe God knows you are looking for a system to put your faith in, instead of His Son?
Why not trust your ultimate salvation to the Lord Jesus and let Him work it all out for you?
Coming from an authoritarian sda atmosphere, it is easy for us to want some sort of structure to have faith in, isn't it? |
Asurprise
Registered user
Username: Asurprise
Post Number: 106
Registered: 7-2007
| | Posted on Friday, August 03, 2007 - 10:51 am: | |
Jim, be patient and study one topic at a time. I think you're new at this? Once you're born again, the Holy Spirit will reveal things to your mind as you can accept them. (You may be "born again" already. I'm not saying you're not.)
The New Testament repeats a lot of commands from the Old Testament and since the word "testament" means "covenant," we can accept what's in the New Testament as what Jesus brought in by His blood as the covenant that God has with us now. Notice Mark 14:24 where Jesus and His disciples were eating that last passover meal before He died. He said: "This is My blood of the new covenant, which is shed for many."
Hebrews 9:15,16 says: "And for this reason, He is the Mediator of the new covenant, by means of death, for the redemption of the transgressions under the first covenant, that those who are called may receive the promise of the eternal inheritance. For where there is a testament, there must also of necessity be the death of the testator."
It says of the old covenant in Hebrews 8:13 "In that He says, 'A new covenant,' He has made the first obsolete..."
Now concerning what that covenant was that God made with Israel, Deuteronomy 4:13 says: "So He declared to you His covenant which He commanded you to perform, the Ten Commandments; and He wrote them on two tablets of stone."
To see which commands are commanded again and which were shadows of Christ; we need to study the New Testament. |
Colleentinker
Registered user
Username: Colleentinker
Post Number: 6463
Registered: 12-2003
| | Posted on Friday, August 03, 2007 - 1:21 pm: | |
You know, Jim, Larry and Dianne makes good points. Try just reading the Bible, small segments at a time, sequentially, until you complete a whole book. Because of your Adventist background, I suggest you begin JUST by reading NT books—especially John, Galatians, Ephesians (an eye-opener), Colossians, Philippians. Also 1 Corinthians.
Plod. One book at a time.
Only pray—here's what I pray before I study the Bible: Please teach me the truth, and help me to know you in a new and deeper way because of this study time.
And praise God. Simply thank Him; thank Jesus for His sacrifice and resurrection. Thank God for saving you, for blessing you, for awakening you, for giving you His Spirit. Thank Him for revealing Himself. Thank Him for what He is doing in your life even though you can't see the end of it yet. Take passages of Scripture, such as Ephesians 3:16-19, and pray them for yourself.
Just focus on Jesus and how grateful you are and how amazing He is. You know what? God will teach you Himself. He will reveal Himself, bit by bit, as you read His word and praise Him.
Listen to praise/worship music and even hymns. Doubts and depression can't flourish in a setting of praise unless you choose to remain in them.
Just focus on Jesus. He is faithful. These other, doctrinal issues will become clear as you praise and worship the Lord Jesus and listen to Him in His words in the Bible.
Colleen |
Jim02
Registered user
Username: Jim02
Post Number: 174
Registered: 5-2007
| | Posted on Saturday, August 04, 2007 - 1:09 pm: | |
Thank you all for feedback. I am listening.
Larry wrote:
"Maybe God knows you are looking for a system to put your faith in, instead of His Son?
Why not trust your ultimate salvation to the Lord Jesus and let Him work it all out for you?"
Larry, I do trust in Christ.
However, I am aware of my own vunerabilities.
Scripture says to work out our salvation with fear and trembling.
We are warned about error because it can lead to major mistakes and damage.
There is also the question of license to sin, becoming too relaxed, getting careless and presumption.
In balanace, there is a need for trust and peace of mind.
Religon can be a vehicle for emotional turmoil and spiritual abuse.
That is why it is so important to me to get the basics in place.
These are the basics I have realized so far.
A) In the beginning God created the Heavens and the Earth.
B) Christ , The Son of God paid our debt and is our salvation........."IF", not period.
And that is where it goes into a series of puzzle pieces.
I know that Christ is the Author and Finisher of our faith.
So, I continue in hope. Hope is being exercised in my life, that concept of HOPE is the main one I do experience. God has carried me so many times through rough chapters, loss, lonliness, mind numbing pain. Moments when I was so beat down I stopped thinking altogether and simply had to rest in His care. Imperfections, faults and all.
I find that I cannot retain enough memory elements to keep juggling all the doctrines and staying on track anymore. I spent three decades in SDA doctrines. My mind and guilt detectors are familiar with certain patterns.
In short : I can't hold it all in my mind.
Just too much to juggle.
This is why I just want to work out the basics and then perhaps I can practice resting in Christ.
But like most plans of mine. God often has a different sequence of events.
A lot of my setbacks are my own doings. I get in the way. WE all do. I see others in my world going thru various stages of life. Everyone sabotages their lives spiritually and physically.
Bad habits, sin etc.. Tis the lot of mankind.
So, I am not alone in this, though sometimes I feel that way. I ask a lot more questions than most folks I know. But that is not because I do not trust God. It is because I do not understand a paticular command, doctrine, tennant or expectation.
So, I expect, that I must learn coping tools for those times of doubt and confusion.
I consider that I am weak in some areas of faith. But I percieve I have potential and purpose. I have gifts and I am able to encourage and help others sometimes. I am not full of pride in that human sense, but I figure we are worth something to God or He would not have died for us. Since I lost my parents, I felt like an orphan. But you know, that is a step in life where God really becomes your Father. Because, the anchors and securities of where you came from are disolved and it is just you and God now.
So even in loss. God is there to fill the voids.
So, please, Let NO ONE be discouraged. I have boatloads to be Thankful for. I get frustrated, and I should not vent that on this forum.
I am going through the motions of doing things differently, especially on Sabbath.
But I still feel like I am doing something wrong.
"What ever is not of conviction is sin"....... That has been a trap for me for years!
In essence, I find that I will never escape the trap unless I act without conviction as it were.
DOES ANYONE GET THAT ???
I have long waited and searched for conviction to escape the bondage of the OT system and SDA legalism.
Some days, I feel like I am seeing a freedom path, other days , I see dark clouds.
Why is that? Old habits, the devil?
Yes, Colleen, I have made progress, your'e right.
But it is still a bumpy ride
Today, my wife and I washed the car together. Something we have not done in years. She kept getting me wet Why did that mean so much to me? Yet, it was Sabbath. Was I doing wrong?
Or was I being blessed , sharing" a moment in time " with my wife.
I was working on a small wood project last evening, past sundown. I tinkered with it some this morning. I enjoyed not being rushed and simply being able to take my time. Then , Sabbath.....guilt.
Who shall rescue me from this being unable to get out of the way?
You see , In this debate. It is a matter of either path could be error and either path could be sin. And I can't get a lock on either one.
I have not even ruled out anything doctrinal yet.
But I will admitt, It will never be the same.
I watched a recording of Joel Osteen today. He admitted, he is about encouragement and not about detailed theology debates. It is not his gift.
That spoke to me. He had discovered that he does not have to know everything and he was satisfied with what he did know.
I have seen this same attitude in my son's church. These people are just happy in The Lord.
And here I am , asking questions............
I want to believe there is that safety net in Christ. and that it is ok if I am not smart enough to get it right. If I can get there, I might recieve that peace of mind.
My best to all , Have a great day !
Jim |
Dennis
Registered user
Username: Dennis
Post Number: 1200
Registered: 4-2000
| | Posted on Saturday, August 04, 2007 - 4:04 pm: | |
Jim,
Adventism is a very physical belief system where adherents can easily judge each other unendingly (i.e., vegetarianism, veganism, food lists, teetotalism, Sabbatarianism, tithing, foot washing, a one-unit material being, negative sexual theories, in-house prophetess and infallible interpreter of Scripture, multiple baptisms, no hell, ad infinitum). It is like the old adage of "seeing is believing." However, they do believe in a real place called "heaven" because Ellen White was there, and she brought a detailed report of her findings.
Her exhaustive details may likely have the effect of reducing the amount of faith required to believe in a literal, heavenly abode. Again, "seeing is believing" even if your prophetess merely did the "seeing" for you. They greatly treasure the idea of having a visible person (although deceased) who continues to dispense unique "truths" to them. This wholehearted dependence upon another human being makes it so much easier for them to embrace the 28 SDA distinctives. As devout Adventists, members welcome and need all the extra-bibical assistance they can get.
Likewise, especially in the area of the material and immaterial sides of man, they find it incredibly difficult to believe in an immaterial side of man--something not physically observable. Hopefully, you will be able to get a copy of Dr. Morey's classic book on this topic, DEATH AND THE AFTERLIFE.
quote:The scholarship of this volume will impress those who have studied the subject with any degree of thoroughness. At the same time, he communicates many great and profound truths in language that the average layman will both appreciate and profit from...In a world which delights in analysis of "out of body experiences," ESP, psychic phenomena, and alleged reincarnational and spiritistic manifestations, Dr. Morey's book directs the light of Scripture, once again, into this murky area of human confusion and dispells the darkness and uncertainty that such speculations create and promote. It is a clear, cool breath of fresh air in the midst of a vacuum of doubt and unbelief. The first major work on the subject in this century, DEATH AND THE AFTERLIFE will for many years be a standard reference work in this sorely neglected field. [Excerpts taken from the FOREWORD by the late Walter Martin]
To obtain a copy, simply log unto: www.faithdefenders.com . In this book, Dr. Morey goes face to face with the late SDA apologist, LeRoy E. Froom. Truly, a must-read type of book. Happy reading!
Dennis Fischer |
Insearchof
Registered user
Username: Insearchof
Post Number: 141
Registered: 8-2005
| | Posted on Sunday, August 05, 2007 - 8:56 pm: | |
Jim,
I appreciate your struggle to do what is right. Adventism is a denomination with ALL the answers. We knew how the Ten Commandments where supposed to work, we knew the 4th Commandment was binding, we knew that it was wrong to eat unclean meats, we knew that the soul was not eternal, we knew that 'Sunday-keepers' were not serious students of Scripture (else they would be Adventists!), we knew that all other Christians believed in 'cheap grace' and as long as they were 'saved' they did not care how they lived, we knew how prophecy was going to work out, if EGW said that a text meant one thing then that settled it for us.
The reality, however, is somewhat different. Since I left Adventism, I have learned that what I thought I KNEW could be wrong. I know 1844 is absolutely wrong. I know that the IJ is absolutely wrong. I know that EGW is absolutely not a prophet. I know that I am saved by grace, without the works of the law. I know that 'Sunday-keepers' love Jesus and they absolutely want to live to honor him - it absolutely does matter to them how they live. I know that 'Sunday-keepers' are serious students of Scripture.
Other things, I am not so sure about. I don't know if my soul will sleep when I die or if my soul will go to heaven or hell. I don't know if those dietary laws that I have followed all my life should be held to as strictly as I tried to when I was an SDA or if I should let them go.
I could go on and on. I had to put some of the things that I was unsure of aside for another time. For now, I pretty much keep to not eating unclean foods. However, I don't stress out if I find that my beans have bacon in them. For now, I don't know what to make of the whole 'what happens when I die' issue, so I don't do anything. I know that those I attend church with do believe in an immortal soul and that is fine by me.
As regards Sabbath observance, I struggled with this for a few months after I left. I now attend church on Sunday and have for about a year. I could have attended a Messianic Jewish church but that did not really fit for me. I never made it to a Seventh-day Baptist church. I came to the conclusion that the day was not important. I read what Dale had to say in his book 'Sabbath in Crisis' and I studied what the NT had to say. At the end of the day, I found that the Apostle Paul seems to go to great lengths to impress upon new converts that they are not to be bound by the law. I found that the Jerusalem council was in the perfect position to lay out the requirement for Sabbath observance and they did not. I found that of all the sins that Paul lists that are not to be found in the life of a Christian, Sabbath-breaking is not among them. I also am amazed that there is absolutely no instruction in the NT regarding just how to keep the Sabbath. Regarding your statement that the Apostle Paul seems to be the only NT writer that implies that Sabbath-observance does not matter, well, no other writer even brings it up. Granted, that is an argument from silence, but considering that as Adventists we considered Sabbath-keeping a salvational (almost) issue, it is very surprising that no NT writer considers it important enough to even mention how to keep it.
Having said all that, let me finish with this. It is my conviction that you should not drive yourself to madness and despair over the issue of whether to keep the Sabbath or not. If you still feel convicted that you should go to church on Sabbath, then by all mean do! Perhaps there is a Seventh-day Baptist church in your area that you can attend while you try to sort it out. It may be that you will always be convicted that you should observe the Sabbath. If you do, that is fine.
From your posts it seems that you have a logical mind (perhaps you are an engineer). I am sure you were drawn to Adventism because it 'made sense' (I am guessing - forgive me if I am wrong). At the end of the day, I find that the Gospel makes no sense. How can God become Man and die for sinners who don't deserve it? Why would Jesus die for me and call me His child and then impute His Righteousness to me so that I would be counted as having never sinned?
Makes no sense to me but thank God, it is not up to me!
I will continue to pray for you and ask that you pray for me, also.
In Christ,
ISO |
Jim02
Registered user
Username: Jim02
Post Number: 176
Registered: 5-2007
| | Posted on Monday, August 06, 2007 - 5:44 am: | |
ISO,
Thank You.
Your posting is of great help and encouragement.
Steve, Thank You for the referrals.
Jim. |
Asurprise
Registered user
Username: Asurprise
Post Number: 108
Registered: 7-2007
| | Posted on Monday, August 06, 2007 - 8:12 am: | |
The book of Romans is another good book of the Bible to study, Jim. Romans 14:5 indicates that it doesn't matter if one observes one day as more important than another. Romans 14:14 says that there isn't anything "unclean" either, but Paul says that if anyone thinks anything is "unclean" then, "to him it is unclean." So here Paul is saying that a person doesn't HAVE to keep or not keep Sabbath or to eat or not eat certain foods. He's saying to go by your conscience. (If you want, I could explain from the Bible just WHY we don't need to keep the Sabbath or refrain from "unclean" meats anymore.)
Dianne |
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