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Jeremy
Registered user
Username: Jeremy
Post Number: 222
Registered: 10-2004
| | Posted on Thursday, January 06, 2005 - 11:32 am: |     |
For me personally, it is usually not hard at all to throw away books, magazines, etc., which contain heretical material, etc.
Jeremy |
Ric_b
Registered user
Username: Ric_b
Post Number: 155
Registered: 7-2004
| | Posted on Thursday, January 06, 2005 - 3:22 pm: | |
SDAs who understand the problems with EGW but try to justify each of these problems by chipping away at the authority of Scripture at the same time may be setting themselves up to have no authority at all, or no reason to believe God at all. One reason why it may be easy to go from SDA to agnostic.
I love books. You should see our house. And my office at work.
It hurts to throw any book away. But once we made the decision, there was such a burden lifted. And it gave me an excuse to buy many new books to fill the suddenly available spaces on the latest bookshelves. |
Freeatlast
Registered user
Username: Freeatlast
Post Number: 256
Registered: 5-2002
| | Posted on Thursday, January 06, 2005 - 4:55 pm: | |
I keep it ALL. It's evidence for the prosecution, man! |
Colleentinker
Registered user
Username: Colleentinker
Post Number: 1199
Registered: 12-2003
| | Posted on Thursday, January 06, 2005 - 5:41 pm: | |
I understand your reaction, Ric! It was the same at our house.
Freeatlast, I do respect your decision. There does need to be some evidence--but we decided it wouldn't be in our house! |
Flyinglady
Registered user
Username: Flyinglady
Post Number: 903
Registered: 3-2004
| | Posted on Thursday, January 06, 2005 - 6:45 pm: | |
I am a real book collector. Books are like old friends. I read them over and over, just like I visit a friend over and over. But when I finally decided to throw out the heretical books, it was not a problem. Thank you God. You are awesome.
Diana |
Susan_2
Registered user
Username: Susan_2
Post Number: 1304
Registered: 11-2002
| | Posted on Thursday, January 06, 2005 - 7:05 pm: | |
Speeking of books-I sent Colleen my Jennifer Meets a Prophet book. Do any of you remember that one? It was very small. It was given to the kids in SS many, many years ago. I sent it to Colleen so she can use it in her ministry. SDA's will say they don't afford the status of prophet to EGW. Yet, that little book, Jennifer Meets a Prophet was printed by Pacific Press and throughout the book little Jeniffer is in a total state of awe at meeting a real prophet, Ellen White. Is it plagerism to quote that book? I wouldn't want anyone to get in trouble. But, Colleen, could you quote a few lines of it on here where EGW is referred to as a prophet? The book was written probably for 2nd through 4th grade levels. Several years ago there was an appeal for volunteers to help clean up a ladys house in the community as her house had suffered great smoke damage from a fire. Everything, and I totally mean every single thing in her house had to be cleaned off because of the smoke. And, she had a lot of stuff as she had lived in that house over a decade. I got the job of cleaning each and every book from her numerous book shelves, lots of books. I noticed she had The Great Controversery and other EGW books on her book shelves. I asked her how come she had Ellen White books. She told me she had been raised Adventist. In fact, she even knew some of my cousins from having gone to the local academy with them many years earlier. I asked her if she ever attended SDA sevices anymore. She told me no, that she picks up her elderly mother each Saturday and takes her to the church and then gets her mom after the potluck and takes her home but other than that she won't be on SDA property. I asked how come and she told me because she gets a creepy feeling when she's on Adventist property. Then we talked some more and I found out that she's a witch. Yeah, she's totally into being Wiccan. She then told me she likes reading the accounts of EGW's spirit guide and she really liked it that EGW's dead husband visited her (EGW). She kept her EGW books on the shelf next to her witch books. This woman went all through SDA school, from 1st grade through 12th grade. What a waste of money that her parents spent on all that SDA nonsense just so she could embrase the most looney and weird stuff that EGW wrote. She did send me a lovely thank-you gift for helping clean her house. I have not heard from her or spoken to her since that one day. |
Raven
Registered user
Username: Raven
Post Number: 157
Registered: 7-2004
| | Posted on Thursday, January 06, 2005 - 8:36 pm: | |
Susan, I don't know about the "Jennifer Meets a Prophet" book, but I have two books in my posession (the stack I didn't get rid of yet) that is an interesting comparison between teaching kids about EGW in 1950 versus 1996. Both books are published by Pacific Press.
The 1950 book is titled "Stories of Little Ellen and the Message". It has a chapter about the Investigative Judgement. An excerpt from that chapter says:
quote:Angels write down everything we do. They write down everything we say. Jesus looked over Adam's life story. When He has looked over every life story He will come to earth again. Those who have been good will go to Heaven with Him. ... "We must tell everyone to keep his life story clean. We must be ready to meet Jesus." Thus, God sent his people a message from heaven. God chose Mrs. Ellen White as His prophet.
The 1996 book is titled "Ellen, The Girl with Two Angels." It has no mention of the Investigative Judgement, but has lots of nice stories about angels, miracles, dreams and visions from Ellen's life. She is also not called a prophet. Instead, she is called a messenger:
quote:One night, God sent an angel to talk to Ellen. He told her that God wanted her to do a special work for Him. He wanted her to be His messenger. "Your life as a messenger for God will not be easy," the angel said. "You must write down whatever God shows you. You must tell people His words... Some people will hate you. Many will tell lies about you."
Interesting, huh? |
Susan_2
Registered user
Username: Susan_2
Post Number: 1308
Registered: 11-2002
| | Posted on Thursday, January 06, 2005 - 9:18 pm: | |
Raven, my little granddaughter has that same book at her school. It's totally horrifying! Last year the child was in kindergrten. I asked her one day to tell me about school that day. She went on to tell me that in chapel that day they learned about Ellen White. This wonderful, little six year old child, who knows all the grown-us in her life just love her so much that no one would ever tell her anything that isn't the absoulate truth went on to tell me that as a little girl a mean boy threw a rock and it hit Little Ellen in the head. She was very sick for a long time. In fact, she never was very healthy because of the injury. God knew Ellen just wanted to tell people about Jesus and how to know Jesus so he gave her special dreams that she wrote in books that we can read so we can learn about Jesus. I was in the backseat with the child as we were on the freeway. My body went bezerk. I had a physical reaction to this and I started making gagging sounds and I was beginning to nutout. My son then had to calm down my wonderful, precious little grandchild because I think my reaction upset her while at the same time I tried to regain my composure. |
Raven
Registered user
Username: Raven
Post Number: 158
Registered: 7-2004
| | Posted on Friday, January 07, 2005 - 6:45 am: | |
They start them young, don't they, in shaping kids to see things the way the SDA church wants them to. Another interesting comparison I found between the 1950 and 1996 book is in the front covers. The 1950 book is laughable. The drawing shows EGW as a young girl, but she looks identical to how she did grown up in dress, hairstyle, and features--but she's child-height, and looks slightly younger in the face. She's walking through heaven's gate with an angel. It makes her look real holy, serious, and prophet-like.
The 1996 cover has a drawing of EGW as a normal looking child of that time period, happily running through the meadow. She looks much more approchable, like someone a kid of today could connect to.
Did you notice in the quotes from my last post, that in the 1996 version, the author found it necessary to prepare the readers for the currently circulating negative information about EGW? "Some people will hate you. Many will tell lies about you."
Near the end of the 1996 book, they even anticipate that someone may come across the Israel Dammon incident. They don't mention that name, but they tell about that meeting and say there were a lot of fanatics there who thought that because of the text in Matthew that says you have to become as a child to enter the kingdom, the fanatical people went crawling around and barking like dogs and sucking their fingers. It says EGW tried to tell the fanatics that wasn't what the text meant, but they wouldn't listen to her. It says many of the people were jailed, even ones that weren't being fanatical. It just painted EGW in such a positive light that she never was the least bit fanatical and tried to change the fanatics.
It just makes one wonder, since the 1950 book is a very close match to what EGW actually wrote, and there is such a drastic change in today's publications, why is that? Does the church realize she was wrong and wants to cover that up, or is the church embarrassed about the reality of EGW and wants people to only see that part of things in a positive way? Either way, it's deceptive. |
Lori
Registered user
Username: Lori
Post Number: 4
Registered: 11-1999
| | Posted on Friday, January 07, 2005 - 7:14 am: | |
I threw away the same leather bound collections of EGW several times!!! Always retrieving them......the first time because I thought I might still need them for "evidence". The second time because "they are leather bound books". The third time because I still feel like I might need them for reference--I've have come across several people who have been exposed to EGW and have entertained thoughts of them "being right". It is one thing to tell them what Adventist REALLY believe (you usually get the response that, "I've never heard that from any Adventist I've known".) and quite another for them to read it in black and WHITE!!! They do still serve a purpose AND they make excellent "pedestals" to elevate items on the tops of your kitchen cabinets, bookcases, entertainment centers. They are "hidden" but still available should the need arise to expose Adventism to the newly exposed.
Anger was my motivation to throw them away at first, followed closely by fear that some "innocent" person might read them and fall prey to the influence. They do serve a purpose even when speaking to a harden Adventist. Most Adventist don't really know the extent of what is written in those books. They don't know what's in the Bible. They don't really READ either one. They read "collections" of the two which have been carefully combined together by "the church". They read the S.S. Quarterly, Signs of the Times, etc....
That's what I did for 25 years!!! That's how you remain an Adventist--you basically deceive yourself.
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Dane
Registered user
Username: Dane
Post Number: 89
Registered: 4-2004
| | Posted on Friday, January 07, 2005 - 8:01 am: | |
I can really identity with so much of this. As to the EGW books, I didn't actually start reading entire books by her until college. Later when we started having doubts, I went back and read many of her books c to c. It's amazing what you find when you read the entire books in context. BTW I keep a small collection of very old EGW books for reference when I speak to SDA's. I have copies of the first three editions of GC, a very early ed of P&P, and some others. I agree that probably most current SDA have no idea about some of the strange things in the originals.
Dane |
Colleentinker
Registered user
Username: Colleentinker
Post Number: 1205
Registered: 12-2003
| | Posted on Friday, January 07, 2005 - 11:03 am: | |
Raven, I found your comparison of the two versions of the Ellen book fascinating. Wow, the 1996 version is addressing everything people have discovered, isn't it?! All the while, they're digging themselves deeper into deceit.
No wonder young Adventists have NO CLUE what the church really is--or, for that matter, why they have such a visceral resistance even to considering what the church really is or why they are Adventists at all. They have not been taught the gospel; they have been taught a false gospel which emphasizes love and acceptance and some sort of security--often a form of universalism, and Sabbath, but they know nothing of God's sovereignty or justice or righteous requirements of us.
They just know they feel secure in the womb of the church--that never quite births them into life in the real world.
Colleen |
Jeremy
Registered user
Username: Jeremy
Post Number: 228
Registered: 10-2004
| | Posted on Friday, January 07, 2005 - 2:48 pm: | |
Wow, Colleen, that last sentence of your post is a great way of putting it. "They just know they feel secure in the womb of the church--that never quite births them into life in the real world."
Of course, it is a false security--so dangerous and sad.
Have any of you seen/heard of that book put out by Pacific Press several years ago written by Ty Gibson was the name I think? I think he writes something along the lines of the SDA church is the true remnant church, "the ship is going through," and everyone on the ship is going through--if you're SDA you'll go to heaven, whether you're saved or not! And the non-SDA saved people will go to hell! It's crazy!
Jeremy |
Freeatlast
Registered user
Username: Freeatlast
Post Number: 260
Registered: 5-2002
| | Posted on Friday, January 07, 2005 - 4:41 pm: | |
Wow Raven, that is VERY revealing indeed! |
Susan_2
Registered user
Username: Susan_2
Post Number: 1318
Registered: 11-2002
| | Posted on Friday, January 07, 2005 - 6:10 pm: | |
Yes, I also believe many of the younger SDA's don't even know what the SDA teaches and even if they do know they think of those as antiquated teaching, not current doctrines. I have a young cousin who got his preaching degree from Andrews several years ago. He is now the minister at a fairly good sized SDA church. They are a young couple, married. They wear wedding rings (Yes, the minister and the wife.) and their young child takes dancing lessons. This is a full-fledged SDA minister. They don't seem to be aware of the historical beliefs of Adventism. Sometimes I am almost (but not quite) courious to ask them if they are aware of these teahings of the SDA church. But, since they really, truly are my most favorite relatives I keep my lips zipped because I love that young family very much. But, I do wonder those things. |
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