| Author |
Message |
Flyinglady
Registered user
Username: Flyinglady
Post Number: 2470
Registered: 3-2004
| | Posted on Friday, April 21, 2006 - 6:52 pm: |     |
Cw,
Yes, there is a double standard. The Adventist church believes it is God's "remnant" church and the Sabbath is a salvation issue. There are many statements written by EGW where she puts herself even with the Bible. Adventists do not like to see that. Go to CARM, Christian Apologetics and Research Ministry, and see how Adventists will defend her. Many from here write over there. Also go to Revival Sermons, a web site owned by Richard O'Ffill, an SDA minister and see what they say about themselves and EGW. A bunch of us got banned from writing on his web site because we said we did not believe EGW. Any one can criticize the Bible there, but not EGW.
I will continue to pray for your daughter and you that God give you the words to say to her.
Some one told me that when EGW was held up to that person, the person replied that EGW did not die for his sins and was resurrected.
Part of my mission, that God has given me is to let others know what the SDA church teaches. I have given 6 books, written by former SDA pastors, to the head pastor of my church last Sept. Just recently, I gave 3 books, written by D. Ratzlaff, to the pastor of the church near me who rents his church to the SDA on Saturday.
Father in Heaven, be with Cw as he speaks to his daughter. Give him the words to say to her. Open her mind, eyes and ears that she will know that her Father is telling her the truth about SDAs. As always God, You are awesome.
Diana |
Dennis
Registered user
Username: Dennis
Post Number: 673
Registered: 4-2000
| | Posted on Friday, April 21, 2006 - 7:08 pm: | |
Cw,
Welcome to the FAF forum! Repeatedly, I have observed that the self-imposed combination of romance with Bible study doesn't mix very well--especially when an Adventist is attracted to a non-Adventist. Far too often these love bugs find it impossible to disagree about religion or most anything else. Some young women may silently think that this is their only chance to marry a really neat guy.
Of course, after the marriage ceremony, new problems can surface rather quickly in regard to religion--a topic that seemingly was not a problem beforehand. Marrying an Adventist is much more serious than most other people because they are so far removed from biblical Christianity (i.e., they differ in diet, dress, leisure, day of worship, worldview, eschatology, soteriology, Christology, pneumatology, ad infinitum).
You are doing the right thing in getting educated about Adventism. It is not easy to talk sense into adult children sometimes. Your knowledge of Adventism will definitely be a plus. Pray unceasingly for your daughter that God will protect her from deception.
Dennis Fischer |
Cw
Registered user
Username: Cw
Post Number: 8
Registered: 4-2006
| | Posted on Saturday, April 22, 2006 - 12:47 pm: | |
Thanks for your continued prayers Diana and nice to meet you Dennis. I will go to those web sites. I can tell you all are not highly thought of by SDA. I got my first issue of PROCLAMATION! and read it last night-I work a night shift on the week ends and have time to read there. Great magazine. But you tend to get beat up in Letters to the Editor. Oh well, I'm glad you are there. Is that you on the back page Diana? Anyway, I keep learning new things about SDA that shock me-I never had any idea! Colleen, that was a great, and surprizing article about Easter. I'm leaving it out for my wife Kathy to read. Is taking offense to Easter celebrations wide spread in the church or was that more isolated to your family? What other surprizes am I in store for as I learn more?
You folks tell me if you think I've done the right thing here please. I wrote my daughter a card-I only see her for a couple of hours on the week ends these days-and told her of my joining this forum. I invited her, along with her boyfriend and even his parents, to monitor the discussions including my posts. I will probably never know if she/they actually log in but I hope they do. I'm afraid she will be "instructed" not to knowing how Adventists seem to shun former Adventists. She doesn't open the discussion door often and I have no relationship at all with J or his parents. At least if she monitors these discussions she may more fully understand my concerns. And with you folks' backgrounds she will hear the informed and intelligent other side of SDA "truth". I would never say anything in this forum that I would not say to their faces and I am learning to be kind and gentle, however adament, in my arguments. I've explained that she is "blinded by love" now and that honeymoons always end in time. But that by then she may find she made a terrible mistake. I wouldn't have listened to that either though at 19 years old. CW |
Melissa
Registered user
Username: Melissa
Post Number: 1358
Registered: 7-2003
| | Posted on Saturday, April 22, 2006 - 5:41 pm: | |
When my "boyfriend" found out I was communing with former adventists, he started referring them as people with "axes to grind" and says all of them are liars. He doesn't think they know what adventism really teaches and that their negative experiences are unique to them and not at all normal for the religion as a whole anywhere. I gave him the links to a few formers stories, like Greg Taylor and many on the stories section of this forum and asked him to point out anyone in any of those stories who had "axes to grind", but he never did. That'd mean he would have to think for himself, I guess. He'd rather believe what others say than see the truth.
I guess he thinks i'm really stupid because I'd already come to the same conclusions as many of the formers did long before I joined them, but it was nice to have others who had come to see their teachings the same way who did know them better than I did.
B's family has always been polite, but they've equally let me know that in no uncertain terms B can never leave adventism and them continue to support me. Ultimately, B's loyalty to adventism has meant he would rather not be with me. And it was hard to accept that a "denomination" could create so much friction, which is when I just came face to face with the fact that it's not a "denomination". It's a religion unto itself as is mormonism and JW and many other isms.
I'm probably more skeptical than most here. I always think it has to do with the fact that I don't have any warm association with the religion or its people at all. While I do believe God can do anything, from very personal experience, I also know that sometimes he doesn't for reasons I'll never know.
Maybe I was just more passive in my young adult years, but I did listen to my parents, and considered what they had to say when not said in an accusatory tone. I respected a heart to heart talk more than arguments.
B's sister in law gave him a book that was an explanation of why scripture didn't mean what some thought it did when he started to be confused by some of the scripture I was asking him about. Basically, it took scriptures that seem to disprove adventist theology, and explained why "others" misunderstood it. So, anytime he was confronted with a scripture that contradicted something, he ran to this book and explained why I hadn't studied scripture thorougly enough or I would know.... whatever it was. Not even people who teach masters and doctoral level hebrew and greek were credible enough to accurately explain a passage if it contradicted adventism's explanation. It is the strangest thing I've ever seen. I don't mean any disrespect to the formers on this board, but particularly those born/bred into it, you've never had the experience of coming into it cold just thinking it's another Christian church only to blindsided with how inferior you really are. I remember the first time B told me his church was the only one out there that studied the whole Bible. I was so stunned, I didn't know what to say.
I'm sorry if I sound so skeptical. But those are my real-life experiences nonetheless. I wouldn't wish them on anyone. I pray your daughter is truly seeking God's will for her life and that he just makes it plain as day over any other voice she's hearing. |
Colleentinker
Registered user
Username: Colleentinker
Post Number: 3807
Registered: 12-2003
| | Posted on Sunday, April 23, 2006 - 12:17 am: | |
Melissa, I always appreciate your first-hand and well-thought-out observations in these discussions. Actually, your responses and reactions to Adventism sometimes help me feel "grounded"óthey reassure me that I'm not over-reacting as we are so often accused of doing. (I am always so astonished by people who say we just don't really understand Adventism. Huh? I was a third-generation Adventist completely steeped in it via school, home, and church, and I tried very hard to live it RIGHT! I absolutely know Adventism...)
Cw, my description of how Easter looked to me as an Adventist is pretty much universal in the church. I purposely softened the statements by refering to the "Adventists that I knew" in the editorial because I know a lot of more liberal or "evangelical" Adventists would say they didn't see Easter the way I described it...but in reality, I assure you that not even the most "liberated" California Adventist really understands Easter or considers it a significant holiday like Christmas.
Actually, many Adventists were more negative about Easter than my family was. For us it was mostly a non-issue. Many actively scorned it and would laugh, if Easter Sunday were rainy, about all those deceived people getting rained on in the Sunday sunrise services.
I'm realizing the underlying reason why Easter was so non-importantóbesides the Sunday issueóis that Adventists do not believe humans have a spirit other than their breath. Hence the new new birth is nebulous and confusing, and they have no concept that Jesus' resurrection was literally the gateway to a new reality of the human spirit being brought to eternal life by the Holy Spirit. They see Jesus' resurrection as a promise for the future, but they do not see it as the means to a completely new reality.
Adventism truly is a depressing and fearful religion, and as one Christian I know who converted to Adventism and remained one for 15 years said, "Adventism robbed me of my joy in the Lord."
With prayers for you and your daughter,
Colleen |
Flyinglady
Registered user
Username: Flyinglady
Post Number: 2476
Registered: 3-2004
| | Posted on Sunday, April 23, 2006 - 7:41 pm: | |
Colleen, You say things so well and I agree with you 100%.
And, yes, Cw, that is my picture on the back page of Proclamation. I had a good time that night meeting and laughing with people I had not met before. At least I was laughing instead of frowning.
Melissa, it is always good to read what you write. I was born and raised Adventist, so I see it from that side and not from the side of someone who has never been an Adventist. When you write I can just imagine what I put my ex husband through. Keep up your writing. I am glad you are here.
Diana |
Cw
Registered user
Username: Cw
Post Number: 9
Registered: 4-2006
| | Posted on Monday, April 24, 2006 - 12:55 pm: | |
You know, I have more questions and comments than you folks probably have time for. Such as, out of the hundreds or thousands of so-called modern prophets, what makes one in particular, in this case EGW, the only true prophet? Do not Adventists believe that all the others such as Joseph Smith, Mary Baker Eddy, Ruthorford and Russell, Moon and others I would have to look up, false prophets? What mind-set makes that one true among all the others?
I have now officially invited my daughter, in writing, to monitor this forum. I'm sure she won't tell me if she does but I am praying that she will. I wish I could say to her, as well as to this forum and myself that I know she will never convert to SDA. But God gives us free will to make our own decisions and our own mistakes. However, and I have "that peace which surpasses all understanding" about this:
D WILL NOT BE DECEIVED INTO BELIEVING THE FALSE DOCTRINE OF ELLEN G. WHITE!!! Again, I do not claim to always hear the voice of the Lord as clearly as some do. But God has confirmed to me too many times lately, and one of those ways is through this forum, that although D may or may not turn to SDA through her love of J, it will not be because she believes it. I know for certain, and God is giving even me peace about this, that D's knowledge of the truth and her love for God and his word that for her to convert would be an act of betrayal on her part. She will have to deliberately, adamently, and defiantly commit an act and attitude of willful disobedience to her Lord and figuratively turn her face from Him and walk off hand-in-hand with EGW. She may do it but it will be under extreme conviction of the Holy Spirit to the point of bowling ball sized knots in her stomach. And unless Webser's has changed it's wording the definition of willful disobedience to God is still sin. I type this posting knowing and praying that D and even J and his parents will read it. Babe, if you are reading it I love you with all my heart and I pray for you like I have never prayed about anything in my life.
I continue to be amazed at SDA doctrine, such as Colleen's article about Easter. I guess it makes sence when I think about it because it seems that we "Sunday Worshipers" are held in contempt by Adventists. And what more important Sunday to us than Easter Sunday? Before communication dwindelled to pretty much a stop I heard things like "J and his parents aren't that SDA, thay aren't even vegitarians". But he refused to support his school teams, on which he was a star player, when they played on Saturdays. I have said and continue to say that I somehow respect his strong stand in his beliefs even though they are so obviously false. But I don't respect the "spin" that they put on it to try and get us to accept it as "not so bad". I would respect J as being a man if he would look me in the eye and tell me face to face that my Lord's death on the cross was not enough and that he, my daughter-should they marry-and my future grand kids are heaven-bound but that I am not. He still would not be accepted into my family but at least I would give him credit for having guts enough to say it to me.
Thank you all for listening and for your prayers. Until I found this forum I've had this discussion many times with myself. Psalms 37 refers to that sort of thing as "fretting" and it leads only to evil. Amen to that. CW |
Cw
Registered user
Username: Cw
Post Number: 10
Registered: 4-2006
| | Posted on Monday, April 24, 2006 - 1:24 pm: | |
Jeremy, I just checked out the "deliberate distortions" website you mentioned. I've been there before through a word search of "corrupt bibles". I've done a few of my own so far with the Clear Word I bought on e-bay. Try 1John 1:8-9. It doesn't fit EGW teachings so it was changed. It doesn't even sound like a passage out of the same book. I'm sure there many others and I spend time in finding some of them as I can. CW |
Ric_b
Registered user
Username: Ric_b
Post Number: 481
Registered: 7-2004
| | Posted on Monday, April 24, 2006 - 1:55 pm: | |
CW. Email me and I can send you additional distortions from the Clear Word. I also have many other SDA issues that I have written and documented from the posting that I do at CARM--so let me know the specifics and I'll be happy to send you information that I have on any of those.
rickbarker@fuse.net |
Pheeki
Registered user
Username: Pheeki
Post Number: 799
Registered: 1-2003
| | Posted on Tuesday, April 25, 2006 - 12:08 pm: | |
Chris Carol...are you out there? Perhaps you can help CW! She lost a son-in-law to SDAism and it tore her daughter's family apart. |
Pheeki
Registered user
Username: Pheeki
Post Number: 800
Registered: 1-2003
| | Posted on Tuesday, April 25, 2006 - 12:13 pm: | |
Flying lady...I loved your outfit!!! Good choice...it's going to be seen by thousands of people. Bet you didn't think about that happening. I liked your jewelry too! |
Cw
Registered user
Username: Cw
Post Number: 13
Registered: 4-2006
| | Posted on Tuesday, April 25, 2006 - 12:33 pm: | |
Thanks Pheeki, I'll take all the help I can get. |
Cw
Registered user
Username: Cw
Post Number: 14
Registered: 4-2006
| | Posted on Tuesday, April 25, 2006 - 5:15 pm: | |
Rick, I got the info for the web site www.carm.org it looks like a lot of good info on several cults including SDA. I'll check it out further as time allows. Thanks. CW |
Flyinglady
Registered user
Username: Flyinglady
Post Number: 2484
Registered: 3-2004
| | Posted on Tuesday, April 25, 2006 - 6:04 pm: | |
You are so correct Pheeki. I never thought my face would be seen by so many people. Hopefully, Adventists, with whom I went to school, will receive it and see me. My name and e-mail is on the Lynwood Academy website and maybe some will write to me to ask me why. The ones from LLU can contact me through Classmates.com. My jewelry is Indian jewelry made with silver and turquoise. Thank you for the compliments.
Diana |
Flyinglady
Registered user
Username: Flyinglady
Post Number: 2485
Registered: 3-2004
| | Posted on Tuesday, April 25, 2006 - 7:33 pm: | |
Pheeki,
I forgot to add that Chris Carol writes on CARM. So why don't you go there to contact her?
Diana |
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