| Author |
Message |
Colleentinker
Registered user
Username: Colleentinker
Post Number: 3618
Registered: 12-2003
| | Posted on Thursday, March 23, 2006 - 10:51 pm: |     |
Jeremiah, thank you for sharing your own experience of God revealing Himself. It is encouraging, and it makes me praise Him for His absolute faithfulness.
Colleen |
4truth
Registered user
Username: 4truth
Post Number: 3
Registered: 2-2006
| | Posted on Friday, March 24, 2006 - 5:25 am: | |
Dear Arno and Joyce, Welcome to this forum! It is great to have you here and good to hear your stories. It seems like everyone here has been influenced negatively in some way by adventism, and we all deal with it in somewhat different ways. Personally I can relate in a strong way to your current way of thinking. I was raised SDA and went through the whole school system through college, etc. Then one day I was reading "the great contraversy" and it hit me like a ton of bricks-I CAN'T BELIEVE THIS GARBAGE!! From that moment on I was a staunch agnostic and lived as such, until about 17 years later through the living testimony of some truly Christian people and the Holy Spirit, I was born again and acepted Jesus as my savior. I am now a very active member of an evangelical Christian church and know peace in Christ like I never knew was possible. I pray you too can have this peace if you don't, and please continue to post and fellowship with us. Colleens post was great. Hang in there and know you are accepted by God no matter where you are in life's journey. Rick |
Pheeki
Registered user
Username: Pheeki
Post Number: 779
Registered: 1-2003
| | Posted on Friday, March 24, 2006 - 8:04 am: | |
In one of Canright's works (denouncing SDAism) he wrote something that really struck me. I believe it may be the actual purpose of SDAism existing...
He said, "SDAism is really good at making infidels". I always thought the word "infidel" was a bad word...It actually means:
An unbeliever with respect to a particular religion, especially Christianity or Islam.
One who has no religious beliefs.
One who doubts or rejects a particular doctrine, system, or principle.
infidel
n : a person who does not acknowledge "your" God.
My niece and her husband are perfect examples...both raised SDA, SDA academy, etc. Both now agnostic/athiest. It hurts me because they say things like "This life is all we have, so we need to make the best of it." My niece says she doesn't believe in God but wants to make everyone as happy as possible around her and she does lots of nice things for people...maybe kind of a "Karma" system of belief.
When your personal belief system is based on Jesus being the only way to heaven, and you have loved ones that don't believe, it really is upsetting. So I pray and pray for her...she humors me and says she will pray for me...because she wants to honor what "I" believe and if praying for me makes me happy she will...but she says doesn't know who she is praying to.
I have to admit, what Joyce wrote upset me. I don't want to drive you away Joyce...I hope our comments aren't offensive to you. I just want you to know that I personally can verify there is a God, Jesus is alive and at God's right side, and I have personally experienced being filled by the Holy Spirit.
I want this peace for you...it's a different peace than what the world offers. Bhuddism worships a dead man, Wiccan worships nature, SDA worship a day and a dead woman...
True worship is worship of the Living God. He is my Father, the only true Father I have ever had...as both my adopted and real father were abusive. My real Father in heaven had His hand on me my whole life...He is my REAL Father.
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Justdodie
Registered user
Username: Justdodie
Post Number: 7
Registered: 2-2006
| | Posted on Friday, March 24, 2006 - 9:17 am: | |
Pheeki,
I'm sorry, I didn't mean to upset anyone. I just felt so moved by Arno's post and wanted to offer encouragement and let him know that there is hope, and it is possible to move out of that frightening and confusing and angry place that so many of us are going through or have gone through.
I know that my ideas are probably a little extreme for most people here and I've pondered whether maybe I ought not post any more, as I truly am not here to cause trouble. But you never know whether there may be more "lurkers," people who desperately want answers and don't know where to start looking. And I know how strong that aversion can be to "the Bible only" advice. Believe me, a few years ago, that would have totally turned me off and driven me away. That's the reason I gave the advice I did to Arno, to search everywhere and everything. One think I have finally come to believe is, God will never condemn a sincere seeker. For years, it seemed to me that God was a narrow and rigid entity that was saying, "My way or the highway (to hell)" and that there was no love or acceptance except through a particular narrow set of rules. I no longer view God that way and I now experience God as an awesome, ever-present power and presence in my life. So, explore and learn everything you can. That may just be what it takes for you to finally make a decision that you can live with where the Bible and Christianity are concerned. That's what it took for me. And it took a LONG time for me to finally believe in a loving God that I could trust enough to say, "Show me the way," but when I did--WOW!
I will try to keep my "preachiness" to a minimum from now on.
Thanks, everyone.
Joyce |
Pheeki
Registered user
Username: Pheeki
Post Number: 781
Registered: 1-2003
| | Posted on Friday, March 24, 2006 - 9:22 am: | |
I am not overly upset...I understand where you are coming from...it just hits close to home as I hear some of the same things coming from my niece whom I love.
God bless...hey, I thought I cornered the market on preachiness!!! |
Belvalew
Registered user
Username: Belvalew
Post Number: 1002
Registered: 7-2004
| | Posted on Friday, March 24, 2006 - 9:57 am: | |
Joyce and Pheeki, you have not cornered the market on preachiness, not by a long shot. I haven't posted on this thread because I was a little uncomfortable about the subject matter, although I am delighted that Joyce and Arno have trusted us enough to start posting here. You are welcome, and we will continue to learn together.
I really identified with what you said, Pheeki, because I watched friends and family escape Adventism and become involved in New Age, Wicken (sp?), agnosticism, and just plain ole bitterness. At one time my observation about leaving Adventism is that it had done such a good job of painting other Christian churches as The Whore of Babylon and her daughters that most just become "nothings." It happened to me when I fell away the first time. I still prayed, read my Bible, and believed, but my parents were so convinced that I was "lost" that I played along with them and told them that it was good that I would be annihilated quickly because I saw myself as small time.
The saddest thing about Adventism is the automatic narrow-mindedness that will not allow an individual to seek Jesus without the diet or the day. My brother and sister started smoking when in their 20's, so they were automatically lost. I moved in with my boyfriend, and I was lost. My other brother smoked dope and he was lost. So many methods, all leading to the same designation.
Since that time, by the Grace of God, we all found our way back, or maybe to for the first time, to the Living Savior. It took time, but we have all found our way home to Jesus, and for that I'm eternally grateful. |
Brix
Registered user
Username: Brix
Post Number: 24
Registered: 2-2006
| | Posted on Friday, March 24, 2006 - 11:27 am: | |
Arno, I havent heard for you for awhile, hows things going with you. I would like to read your mind.Just a pun ha ha.
Which part of the bible you been reading. |
Riverfonz
Registered user
Username: Riverfonz
Post Number: 1452
Registered: 3-2005
| | Posted on Friday, March 24, 2006 - 2:52 pm: | |
Jeremiah,
The book "Case for Christ" by Lee Strobel has been used mightily of God. I would be curious who you read who are criticizing it? Nothing will convince an atheist except the regenerating power of the Holy Spirit. But God has used that book, as well as others to have their spiritual eyes opened. I would just challenge Arno, Justdodie, and Blacksheep to at least give it a try. It just so happened that Lee Strobel himself was exactly where these folks were at some point, and then he did the research on his own, and God opened up his spiritual eyes and took away the veil.
Stan |
Cathy2
Registered user
Username: Cathy2
Post Number: 88
Registered: 2-2006
| | Posted on Friday, March 24, 2006 - 3:54 pm: | |
Arno,
Another comforting and enlightening book, I just recalled, is 'The Gospel According to Job' by Mike Mason. He truly brings out how Jesus Christ is all over the book of Job and how it impacted himself in a personal way.
Mike went through a devastating depression, his life falling apart, not able to hardly read the Bible at all. So he, somehow, began to only read the book of Job, little by little, and to scribble insights down (sometimes, in the middle of the night on toilet paper); praying, desperately, to God. Later, he put what healing insights into the Gospel he had gained into one page chapters as a book; The book of Job, chapter by chapter, through Job's journey of loss and hope, friends hounding him about works, depression, questioning God--to the end, when God personally restored anew.
This book helped me and I intend to read it again, when I can get it back from my mom, who liked it so much, she kept it!
You, probably, cannot find it in a Christian bookstore, now, but it can be ordered on the Internet. amazon.com
~I will teach you and guide you in the way you should go; I will counsel you and watch over you~
Psalms 32 (NIV)
~ My heart trusts in him and I am helped~
Psalms (NIV)
Prayers are with you~
Cathy |
Michelled
Registered user
Username: Michelled
Post Number: 5
Registered: 3-2006
| | Posted on Friday, March 24, 2006 - 8:24 pm: | |
Christs yoke is easy, His burden is light.
The problem with legalism is that we are forced to be good- our own way. When actually it is this broken state you are in, you who feel helpless, that God can teach you and become your true comforter. Christ set us free from this bondage! Ask Christ to baptize you in His Holy Spirit. I guess if you feel that confused and upset, what can it hurt??? I beleive He can't stand a boastful heart, for how can He use or teach it, if it already knows 'the truth'? Its in our brokenness that God can show us how living He really is!!! God Bless, Michelle |
Freeindeed
Registered user
Username: Freeindeed
Post Number: 5
Registered: 3-2006
| | Posted on Friday, March 24, 2006 - 9:47 pm: | |
I read "The Case For Faith" before reading "The Case For Christ" and I found both of them to be very helpful. "The Jesus I Never Knew" by Philip Yancey is excellent, especially the chapter on the Sermon on the Mount.
Jesus said "I am the way, the truth, and the life; no one goes to the Father except by me." Jn. 14:6 And later Jesus said "And this is the real and eternal life: That they know you, The one and only true God, And Jesus Christ, whom you sent. Jn. 17:3 (The Message)
There is only one way to eternal life and it's through Jesus by knowing him. When we look for him we will find him (or we will realize that he found us). Trying to find eternal life outside of Christ is an exercise in perpetual futility. It's like trying to count the stars, or grains of sand. Or it's like trying to drive a car with no engine, or tires, or steering wheel. There isn't even a car, or a road to drive it on. We won't find the answers to eternal questions from non-eternal sources. But we have to know that we can trust God and his Word, and that is where the books mentioned can help. It does take faith, but faith is exercised only after we have some knowledge (knowing) about what we are placing our faith in, and I believe the evidence has been provided. We can know God!
"And now, Father, glorify me with your very own splendor, The very splendor I had in your presence Before there was a world. I spelled out your character in detail To the men and women you gave me. They were yours in the first place; Then you gave them to me, And they have now done what you said. They know now, beyond the shadow of a doubt, that everything you gave me is firsthand from you, for the message you gave me, I gave them; And they took it, and were convinced that I came from you. They believed that you sent me." Jn. 17:5-8
Freeindeed |
Cathy2
Registered user
Username: Cathy2
Post Number: 91
Registered: 2-2006
| | Posted on Friday, March 24, 2006 - 10:11 pm: | |
Freeindeed,
Thank you for posting a part of Jesus' prayer for all of us to come. His prayer, before his death, has always been such a loving thing, to me; sent down through the ages to us all. Such love pours out in it.
I, too, was very blessed by the Sermon on the Mount chapter in Yancy's book. How he saw and explained that Jesus was pointing out that we cannot live up to and be perfect like the Father; and that Jesus' lessons were preparing the way for the message of the Gospel; everyone's deep need for the Messiah/Savior to be perfect for us. We cannot possibly live up to the perfection of God, but Jesus did and continues to work in us, in spite of ourselves; even if we don't feel like we are real good on bad days.
If I recall correctly, Yancy helps us imagine how those common peole would have felt in the face of "be perfect", knowing how imperfect they were. Not so good. But Jesus gave and spoke hope in his lifetime; people and his own disciples just didn't fully understand until after he had died and risen, and the Holy Spirit came on all flesh, to bring understanding to minds and hearts, and to empower the preaching of the Gospel.
As an SDA, I was taught to be perfect as the Father, according to SDA living. Nothing more. Just be perfect, strive for that as an SDA and I would arrive. How hopeless. I felt hopeless in that teaching. I was hopeless in it.
Finding the true hope in Christ, I rejoiced greatly. Whatever 'good' I might do, I know it is empowered by Jesus, not myself. I can trust it; that it is the right thing, way or whatever.
Keep sharing what you have learned in Christ!
Cathy |
Freeindeed
Registered user
Username: Freeindeed
Post Number: 6
Registered: 3-2006
| | Posted on Friday, March 24, 2006 - 11:22 pm: | |
Cathy,
You're right. "Just be perfect" is a hopeless teaching. Yancey presents the Sermon on the Mount as being offensive. I had never thought of it that way before. But Jesus says things like, "You have heard it said, 'Do not commit adultry.' But I say that if you have looked at someone in a lustful way, you are already guilty of it." It's like he's saying, "if you thought it was hard to keep the law before, wait until you see where the standard really is!"
The chasm between God's ideal and human nature just got wider, wider than we can even imagine. I see, even more, my desperate need of a Savior.
SDAism has elements that are so right and others that are SO wrong at the same time. But they create such a friction. You catch glimpses of Jesus and in those moments you realize that he does it all. But turn around and the law will be in your face as presented by "concerned" brothers or sisters "in Christ". And they'll tell you that if you DO it and FOLLOW it the right way it's not a burden. And ultimately you become frustrated but you're not sure where to place your frustration because "We're right...right?" You can't blame Jesus and you can't blame the church (because they're right), so you blame yourself. Guilt sets in because you're not good enough and you feel you've lost your salvation. So, what do they tell you to do? Try HARDER! So you try harder and the process just repeats itself. You never experience victory because you're trying to do it all yourself. How frustrating is that?
It's the same deception that Satan used in the Garden. It's a test so that you can be like God. And we've been falling for it ever since. The problem is that we trust that the people in the church will point us in the right direction so we can find the answers, and the direction they point us in ultimately leads back to ourselves and not to Jesus the real answer. We end up frustrated again.
When we finally realize what is happening we cannot help but be angry and hurt. How could we have been so deceived? we ask. Am I really that gullible? And we realize that the whole system is wrong, even the things we were right about (not a reference to the Sabbath). Anything done without Christ ends up being bad.
We need Jesus, and Jesus only. He is enough! I can't believe the freedom and release I have experienced. I feel like breaking into song!
Because I'm free, yeah
Oh I have been forgiven!
God's grace has taken off my chains
and given me these wings.
And I'm free, yeah, yeah
And the freedom I've been given
Is something that not even death
Can take away from me
Because I'm free.
Jesus set me free!
Steven Curtis Chapman, for those who know it.
Freeindeed |
Arno
Registered user
Username: Arno
Post Number: 2
Registered: 3-2006
| | Posted on Thursday, March 30, 2006 - 2:59 pm: | |
Dear ALL on this specific *Thread*
Tonight (Friday 30 March), after an awsome display of the might and power of natural elements LAST Friday, three fellow Villagers' as well as my own PC's modems were blown. Only got our PC's back late afternoon (our lil Village is 108 km's away from the nearest *big town*)
It was difficult in a way thinking about all You carer's out there and not being able to *connect*. But ... here I am again.
Ta stax to ALL of you who have responded in the interim, and I mean: ALL OF YOU. It was not an easy-going week ...
To all of You who have cared to make those consturktive suggestions re. recommended literature ... I'm following it up with our local agent Kalahari.com in South Africa (the closest and cheapest in comparison with Amazon.com).
A thought that popped into my mind recently during this past week was that maybe I'm THINKING too much ... maybe I've read TOO much in my life so far ... maybe I'm at that point in time where (if I recall correctly), where Paul of Tarsus said that some people will get *seared* in their consciousnessess ... or whatever.
I'm very happy with all Your input/advice/suggestions. Again I want to express how HAPPY I am that good people like ALL of You who have responded, have rallied together to supply HELP in one or other kind. Yes, I AM.
I still do not know HOW I'm going to get out of my present/past/PRESENT dilemma. It is just very wonderful to know that there are people like You who also, in some way or another, as formeradventists, at least have an inkling of what I'm struggling with. I appreciate Your *laagering*. (Old Afrikaner *Voortrekker* expression for pulling the ox-waggons closer to one another and standing back-to-back, rifles allert, caring for the group ... kind of...)
I'll post soon over the weekend some more ... just happy to be on-line again.
There is a wonderful kind of spirit that emenates from this forum I percieve. Thank YOU, WHOSOVER YOU are, oh GREAT ONE of the ENTIRE COSMOS!
And thank YOU, forum-Members, for having responded to my sigh.
Warm Regards
Arno du Toit |
Colleentinker
Registered user
Username: Colleentinker
Post Number: 3656
Registered: 12-2003
| | Posted on Thursday, March 30, 2006 - 4:21 pm: | |
Arno, it's good to see you here again. Glad to know what's been happening...and just know that prayers for you are continuing. Looking forward to hearing more from you!
Colleen |
Cathy2
Registered user
Username: Cathy2
Post Number: 100
Registered: 2-2006
| | Posted on Thursday, March 30, 2006 - 10:38 pm: | |
Arno,
Glad to hear from you!
I can relate to thinkng too much.  Lots of people do it.
You are not seared in your conscious. People, who are that way, do not *worry* about being seared nor about their conscious at all. They are perectly content where they are and cannot hear the Holy Spirit's drawing. Obviously, you do 'hear' or you would not desire to learn more about Christ or discern him here. The fact that you are thinkng about the concept proves that you are not seared from the Holy Spirit in your conscious, in whatever way he needs to be.
God knows where you are 'going' and he will get you 'there'.
That is a great analogy about the circling, closeness of wagons for the Fellowship! In one way, we can be encircled and close-knit by prayers.
Cathy |
Pheeki
Registered user
Username: Pheeki
Post Number: 785
Registered: 1-2003
| | Posted on Friday, March 31, 2006 - 11:59 am: | |
Arno...we have a friend who used to post here from South Africa by the name of Badenhorst...he may live near to you. Maybe I will try to contact him on your behalf if you are interested. |
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