| Author |
Message |
Ric_b
Registered user
Username: Ric_b
Post Number: 205
Registered: 7-2004
| | Posted on Friday, February 18, 2005 - 12:39 pm: |     |
Bob,
Thanks for your prayer. It is a much needed one. The ability to vehemently disagree in a loving way is not something that comes naturally, at least to me. But our attitude towards those who are hostile towards us, is at least as important, if not more so, than the information that we provide. |
Pw
Registered user
Username: Pw
Post Number: 315
Registered: 6-2004
| | Posted on Friday, February 18, 2005 - 1:49 pm: | |
Jeremy, a few months ago I got into a debate with SDA and he actually had the nerve to say that I was rejecting God because of my refusal to listen to EGW! He even went so far to say that I would not be entering the eternal "City".
Of course, my sarcasm got the best of me and I replied "What city are you talking about? The Emerald City? In that case...Ding, Dong, The Witch Is Dead".
Got banned after that remark. Guess they didn't want to pay any attention to the man behind the curtain. |
Jeremy
Registered user
Username: Jeremy
Post Number: 366
Registered: 10-2004
| | Posted on Friday, February 18, 2005 - 2:26 pm: | |
Pw,
We've gotten the same remarks at the revivalsermons.org site. It is amazing.
Jeremy |
Packer_eric
Registered user
Username: Packer_eric
Post Number: 21
Registered: 3-2004
| | Posted on Friday, February 18, 2005 - 4:16 pm: | |
Hi gang:
I have been a "lurker" of late on the revivalsermons site. It has truly been "blowing up" the past week...Even tho FAF has many-many threads that get going and really take off, this thread on "grandpa vs. grandson" (I don't like that title) has exploded.
I have pasted a website that I would ask some of you to check out. I don't know how else to describe it, but, I was searching a few weeks back and came upon this. For a lack of a better way to describe it, it looks to be "60-40" with regard to positive SDA spins and negative ones. It truly has some intriguing links and I welcome you to look and respond...if not on this thread, let's start a new one called "60-40" - that way I can find your responses!!
Rec'd the NOV/DEC issue of Proclamation the other day (Colleen...is it behind for a reason? Ha! That's the "teacher" in me...your late, sister!?!?)
Say, you all may remember the thread I started on Reggie White and it kind of ran its course. But, could some of you with an "athletic" or sports interest help me with something.
I can get into some pretty good "disagreements", arguments, discussions - whichever you choose - about "what is right to do on the Sabbath." Well, I used to get into those, especially with my SDA brother/pastor.
At any rate, how would you repsond to a "Sabbath-keeper" who is hell-bent on telling us what is "acceptable" behavior or not...or shall I say, what constitutes work or not.
It is fascinating to me that some would argue that we are to refrain from working, not pursuing our own interests, don't accept $$ on the Sabbath, etc. How do the hard-core Sabbath-keepers justify Doctors, Nurses, Policemen, Firemen, etc. Yes, these are necessary for any day survival - and I suppose that's why they don't argue as much. But, what about a teacher/advisor or coach? Are they not doing "good" in the eyese of God much less the eyes of anyone. I remember a few years back being asked to serve as "detention" teacher at my high school...I had a real uneasy feeling about this - on the Sabbath Day. Egads!!
Now, under my new-found assurance, rest, peaceful convictions, whichever phrase fits your fancy, I CAN serve Him (and my fellow man, studetns, players, advisees, etc.) on any day...The Lord I worship every day is much bigger than this...I do indeed advise/teach and coach and it should not matter which day this falls on.
A Sabbath-keeper would need to res[pond and defend how working at a hospital (adventist or not) is any "better" than working as a teach/advisor/coach. Heck, we have a police officer right here in our town that is a great (former) member of the Adventist chutrch. (He and his family have since dropped membership, but still lean toward a Sabbath-keeping focus.)
Hope to hear from you all.
With love,
Eric
http://www.fountain.btinternet.co.uk/sda/index.html |
Colleentinker
Registered user
Username: Colleentinker
Post Number: 1438
Registered: 12-2003
| | Posted on Friday, February 18, 2005 - 4:47 pm: | |
Eric, Proclamation is behind because we changed ships in midstream, so to speak. I took over the magazine last April, and it was already behind. I was still teaching, and I couldn't spend the time necessary to get it back on track.
The January/February issue is going into the design department (that would be Richard at the next desk!) on Monday. We do plan to put out seven issues this year to compensate for last year's five.
I also believe the reason hospital workers have traditionally been able to justify Sabbath work is that the medical work is the right arm of the message in Adentism. Ellen placed her blessing on medical work, so doctors, nurses, etc. have the "Right" to work just as preachers and music directors do. Further, originally Ellen urged that medical personnel give their Sabbath earnings to the church. Some actually do--or at least they did when I was growing up.
Colleen |
Ric_b
Registered user
Username: Ric_b
Post Number: 206
Registered: 7-2004
| | Posted on Friday, February 18, 2005 - 6:05 pm: | |
Eric,
At least depending on the SDA that you talk to it is not acceptable to be a police officer or a firefighter on the Sabbath. Although it is OK to be a hospital or campus security guard at an SDA facility. And it is OK to be a paramedic. But those are just more of those fine distinctions that become impossible to figure out. (Unless perhaps it relates to SDA business interests). |
Flyinglady
Registered user
Username: Flyinglady
Post Number: 1064
Registered: 3-2004
| | Posted on Friday, February 18, 2005 - 6:47 pm: | |
Belva,
Thank you so much for your prayer.
I know those charactcers wanted to hurt me and attack me, but in reality they were not attacking me, they were attacking Jesus, because I was standing up for him. I consider it a privilege to do that for God. I was also saying things they did not want to hear about their church icon, EGW. You know, I can sleep at night because I did not answer the same way they spoke to me. God was, and continues to be with me, especially on the SDA site there. So, again I thank you for your supportive thoughts. We do serve an awesome God.
Diana |
Raven
Registered user
Username: Raven
Post Number: 203
Registered: 7-2004
| | Posted on Friday, February 18, 2005 - 6:54 pm: | |
Eric,
A few weeks ago, I came across the very website you mentioned and did quite a lot of browsing through it. My conclusion was that this person is probably on their way out of SDAism but just doesn't know it yet! Many of the issues addressed, most of us should be able to relate to from our journey out. |
Susan_2
Registered user
Username: Susan_2
Post Number: 1533
Registered: 11-2002
| | Posted on Friday, February 18, 2005 - 7:31 pm: | |
Eric, I grew up noticing that SDA's do not approve of being firefighters or police officers over the Sabbath. I also grew up with the understanding that it is 100% honorable and noble to work in a SDA owned health facility over the Sabbath but is less honorable for a SDA nurse or doctor to work in a non-sda owned health facility. In fact, I once asked how come this is. I was told that in SDA health care facilities only the minnimum amount of work is scheduled. For instance, no routine bathing is scheduled, no secular activities, etc. Whereas in a non-SDA facility a lot of unnecessary work is required of the emeployees. I grew up on a ranch way far out in the country. There were several SDA families in my community, all farmers or ranchers. My family would alternate between the little country SDA church and the large SDA church in the large city around 20 miles away. Several times I was actually told by the city SDA's that the country SDA's should get into a differebt line of work because being farmers too often nature would work its havoc and the farmers would have to work the ranch on the Sabbath. Yeah, it did happen. Probably several times per year that the SDA farmers would have to take care of an emergency with the ranch because of the weather. I always was courious how the SDA's from the city interpertered the text about the beast that fell intio the well on the Sabbath. Another thing, many of the country SDA's raised their own chickens for food and eggs. This also was frowned on by the city SDA's. As for me-I ditched church whenever I had the opportunity to go to the livestock auction on Saturdays. I loved it! I remember as a child being thankful that those Sunday-keepers were at the firehouse on the Sabbath in case of an emergency. There is an extreme pecking order within Adventism regarding choice of professions. |
Belvalew
Registered user
Username: Belvalew
Post Number: 129
Registered: 7-2004
| | Posted on Friday, February 18, 2005 - 9:35 pm: | |
Ah, so I'm not the only person who, as a kid, was thankful that there were people willing to face the fires of hell in order to keep law and order on the Sabbath!
Belva |
Belvalew
Registered user
Username: Belvalew
Post Number: 130
Registered: 7-2004
| | Posted on Friday, February 18, 2005 - 9:37 pm: | |
Maybe I'm wishful thinking, but I think Wicklund is starting to crack a little. We can, and should concentrate our prayers that the truths that have been laid at his feet will not go ignored. |
Susan_2
Registered user
Username: Susan_2
Post Number: 1535
Registered: 11-2002
| | Posted on Saturday, February 19, 2005 - 9:08 am: | |
I feel so sad for Wickland and Colporter and to a lesser extent some of the others on there. They are so bound to their loyalty to EGW, a mear human, no more righteous than anyone else. I would like to see them put all EGW writings away for several weeks and read the Bible only. That would be akin to telling a JW to toss out the Watchtower and all that other JW trash and study the Bible. It's too bad some people are so bound to non-truth, non-Bibical sources for their beliefs. Still, I kinda feel sorry for those two on there. They do not come across as having the joy and peace in their hearts that Christians have, And, I'm being serious now-a devotee of EGW will not gain peace and joy in his heart from EGW's writings. That's some scary stuff. |
Goldenbear
Registered user
Username: Goldenbear
Post Number: 60
Registered: 12-2004
| | Posted on Saturday, February 19, 2005 - 11:11 am: | |
I have read the threads on that forum and I am reminded again of our views of the Soviet Union before the Iron Curtain fell. I remember trying to explain it to my students:
I was teaching a social studies class in Georgia. My 7th and 8th grade students asked, while studying the soviet union, why since the number of communist were so outnumbered, they just didin't throw off the bonds of communism and be free. I told them that when you are programmed to think in only one way, told that freedom is dangerous, that free society at its best is decadent, they are held in check by their own minds.
Adventist that don't look outside of the world view of Adventism are constrained by the view established by EGW and maintained by the church leadership. It is only when crisis or allowing ourselves to study outside that framework frees us to question and not worry about the consequences of this process, do we put ourselves in the position to free our minds and souls to see what Jesus was trying to tell us and even communicate to the children of israel.
When a people are held in bondage they many times don't realize their position. From inside their prison they look out and feel that they are protected and safe on the inside. In fact they will defend their perspective because it is their way of life. |
Flyinglady
Registered user
Username: Flyinglady
Post Number: 1071
Registered: 3-2004
| | Posted on Saturday, February 19, 2005 - 6:10 pm: | |
It appears that Wicklund is opening up a little. At least he is not so sarcastic and even said he was glad I hung in there. He did say he gets sarcatic too. He did not really apologize, but that is fine with me. It is more important that he read the truth from the Bible. He is not ready to change his mind, but he is still posting. Colporteur, and there was another one, who has not posted for a while.
I am amazed at how God leads me. I never in my mind thought I would post on an SDA web site, but God puts the texts in my mind that are pertinent to the subject. I would not do it by myself. I could not. I enjoy standing up for Jesus, even though it is frustrating when the people do not see it because of their EGW filters. One day those filters will fall off and they will be amazed at what the gospel is. I pray that happens soon.
God is awesome.
Diana |
Belvalew
Registered user
Username: Belvalew
Post Number: 132
Registered: 7-2004
| | Posted on Saturday, February 19, 2005 - 7:41 pm: | |
Diana, have you noticed how, when you present a truth from scripture that is irrefutable, the responders either gloss it over, or simply do not acknowledge that their questions have been answered, that is if the answer does not fall in line with their EGW way of thinking.
The other two posters that we have not heard from in a while are Colporteur and Walks-In-The-Light. Wicklund doesn't hold a candle to WITL when it comes to sarcasm. Also, where is Onigiri?
Anyway, Wicklund appears to have been left out to dry by all of the other SDA's except for those SDA's who are agruing for new covenant grace along with us. You can sense Wicklund's weariness, and he just gave up because he says none of us are willing to learn from him. He doesn't say anything that conveys information--only asks snippy questions. How are we going to learn from him? He is getting very weary.
Our prayers for him need to flow. If this doesn't open him up to grace, at least it will allow him to face these sorts of things when he assumes his ministerial duties sometime in the future.
You are right, Diana, Jesus is an awesome God.
Belva |
Susan_2
Registered user
Username: Susan_2
Post Number: 1539
Registered: 11-2002
| | Posted on Saturday, February 19, 2005 - 7:53 pm: | |
That discussion over there is now 50 pages. WOW! |
Flyinglady
Registered user
Username: Flyinglady
Post Number: 1072
Registered: 3-2004
| | Posted on Saturday, February 19, 2005 - 7:56 pm: | |
Belva,
Yes I have noticed how they just gloss over or do not respond to a scripture that answers their question. That is what is so frustrating to me, because it is so plain. Then I have to remember they have their EGW filters on and DO NOT KNOW IT. They think they are reading it as God wants them to. And yes, it looks like the other SDAs have left him out in the cold by himself. He does not realize that Jesus is wrapping his arms around him. And again I agree with you, he asks snippy questions and we are not learning anything from him. He is weary by all appearances.
God, you know what is going on in Wicklund's mind. As he gets weary, may he turn to you to find the truth. I know you will not lead him wrong, but will lead him into all truth. I praise you God, for all the help you have given each of us in presenting the truth to this web site. Be with Pastor O'Fill that he too will see the truth and all the other SDA posters also. Thank you for the opportunity to catch the arrows on Jesus behalf. He did so much more for each of us. Wrap your loving, wonderful, awesome arms around each of the posters on the website and may we who have found Jesus always represent Jesus in what we say and write. You are awesome.
Diana |
Randyg
Registered user
Username: Randyg
Post Number: 16
Registered: 12-2004
| | Posted on Saturday, February 19, 2005 - 9:04 pm: | |
Thank-you Goldenbear for your great post. Your analogies to communism,Adventist world view,and Inmate security syndrome are great and very useful to me.Trying to keep it in the short grass, Randy. |
Flyinglady
Registered user
Username: Flyinglady
Post Number: 1074
Registered: 3-2004
| | Posted on Sunday, February 20, 2005 - 9:37 am: | |
I was just reading on Pastor O'Fills web site. They people are quoting EGW, talking about what the SDA church is not doing, like keeping the Sabbath correctly and I forget what else. Very little is said about Jesus, what He has done for us and what He is doing for us. It is like he is not important. That is so sad. So we continue to pray for the SDAs in our weekly and our private sessions with God.
God is so awesome.
Diana |
Belvalew
Registered user
Username: Belvalew
Post Number: 134
Registered: 7-2004
| | Posted on Sunday, February 20, 2005 - 2:13 pm: | |
Diana, there is another way to look at things. Remember that the website is sponsored by a SDA pastor, and most of the posts (I did some reading in some of the other topics over there) have been made by the SDA faithful until this particular thread took off. We came along, and Bucky and his friend came along and we all rocked their little world.
You have to admit that we have kept clear about our objectives and continually presented them with clear Biblical truths, whether or not they wanted to acknowlege them. We have watched the defenders of the SDA "truth" fall away one by one. Perhaps we have gotten through to them and they are not willing to come back and say, "Oh, now I see." Let us pray that we have driven them to their Bibles and to their knees. Now you and I, that means all of us here who care about the seeds we have planted, must pray for a harvest of souls. The Word of God will not come back empty!
Again, I want to thank you all for presenting the truth of scripture with love. It was so hard not to lose my temper. There were times when I got up and paced around until I could get my emotions under control. I was so grateful that it was not a face-to-face confrontation. I'm a cripple, and for me to get up and pace is difficult! The thing I'm trying to say is that this time of quiet may be the most profound time, and we won't really know how many lives it effected until we meet those dear souls in the kingdom. It did feel good to be an instrument in the hands of the Savior, didn't it!!!!!
Give me Jesus!
Belva |
Flyinglady
Registered user
Username: Flyinglady
Post Number: 1077
Registered: 3-2004
| | Posted on Sunday, February 20, 2005 - 2:22 pm: | |
Thanks for reminding me that it is a site started by an SDA minister. I have to stop and remember what it was like to wear EGW filters.
And, Yes, I know God is working and we do not know how many of those souls we will meet in heaven.
And YES, it does feel GOOD to be an instrument in the hands of Jesus. I said earlier I did not mind taking the arrows for Jesus because he did so much more for me. He is truly awesome.
Diana |
Belvalew
Registered user
Username: Belvalew
Post Number: 135
Registered: 7-2004
| | Posted on Sunday, February 20, 2005 - 2:54 pm: | |
Dear Eric,
In order to take a break from the Bucky site I took a look at your recommended site, the one that asks the question, "Should Adventism rethink their dependence on EGW?" Good article. I was disappointed, however, to see how many think they still need to throw their alliegence behind a woman who has been proven to be dillusional rather than prophetic. I've heard it said more than once that if the SDA's were to withdraw their support of EGW they would find that they are really just ordinary evangelical Christians. They all want to remain special and are willing to keep error in order to do so. So sad!
Belva |
Belvalew
Registered user
Username: Belvalew
Post Number: 136
Registered: 7-2004
| | Posted on Monday, February 21, 2005 - 10:54 am: | |
Our SDA friends who disappeared from the Bucky site have started up their own thread where they can pat each other on the back and soothe each other.
----------
http://www.revivalsermons.org/forums/viewtopic.php?t=527
----------
Walk_In_The_Light, and Colporteur, along with some of their other friends are over there reassuring each other that they are right by quoting Ste. Ellen to their heart's content. They are going so far as to refer to her as the greatest of the prophets.
I'm not saying that anyone needs to go over there and try to continue this futile discussion, but they haven't given up the ghost yet. Sojourner is calling them to task, tho, and trying to bring them back on topic by reminding them that they still need to prove their points solely from scripture. Now they are getting uncomfortable again.
By the way, I would not have referred to EGW as Ste. Ellen if they had not made that comment about her being the greatest of the prophets. They are comparing her to John The Baptist.
Jesus Only
Belva |
Belvalew
Registered user
Username: Belvalew
Post Number: 154
Registered: 7-2004
| | Posted on Friday, February 25, 2005 - 5:36 am: | |
Dear Friends,
I'm up early, couldn't sleep, so I checked the activity on this site when I got up. It appears that Pastor O'Ffill has wearied of attacks on his favorite prophet. He has closed out this discussion on his board.
However, the points made up to this point will remain, and the discussion that was an outgrowth of this one still remains active. I got baited and I bit. One of them asked a seemingly innocuous question about something I said, but what was really happening was the "splitting hairs" move that Adventists so love to use. I turned around and asked a question right back at him rather than spending a lot of time defending an already defended topic. Pray that when it is my turn to speak again Jesus will guide me to the right texts, not for the person who reeled me in, but for those who are quietly observing the exchange. There is no doubt in my mind that God has been in all of these exchanges.
By the way, I think that now it is Greg's turn to ask, "Was it something I said?"
Belva |
Greg
Registered user
Username: Greg
Post Number: 14
Registered: 2-2005
| | Posted on Friday, February 25, 2005 - 7:12 am: | |
Belva,
Yes, it was something I said. See my post on the other thread here. I crossed the invisible line in the sand. The line is not the scriptures, not God, Jesus or the Holy Spirit. It's Ellen White.
Greg |
Esther
Registered user
Username: Esther
Post Number: 146
Registered: 5-2004
| | Posted on Friday, February 25, 2005 - 8:33 am: | |
So true. Everything was fine until the attack turned to Ellen...
BTW I loved your layout of the prophet tests Greg. As I read the question I was hoping someone had gotten them in there. i just wish we could've slipped in a perfect "thus says Ellen against the Bible" quote before they locked it up. Oh well. |
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