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Archive through August 3, 1999Bruce H7-29-99  3:23 pm
Archive through August 4, 1999Colleen Tinker8-04-99  11:53 am
Archive through August 7, 1999Lynn8-06-99  10:06 pm
Archive through August 11, 1999Richard Tinker8-11-99  12:56 pm
Archive through August 22, 1999Colleentinker8-22-99  7:58 am
Archive through August 26, 1999Rayna8-26-99  2:33 am
Archive through September 22, 1999jtree9-22-99  10:12 am
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Posted on Wednesday, September 22, 1999 - 10:16 am:   Edit PostDelete PostPrint Post   Move Post (Moderator/Admin Only)

May I add, that on the site of

<link removed by webmaster--Yahoo site needs to be named something other than Former Adventist Fellowship (FAF), and FAF artwork needs to be removed>

you can have conferences online, with realtime chat, Bible study, fellowship and really get to know each other. I am happy to be there with you.

"And this is His Commandment:that we should believe on the name of His Son Jesus Christ and love one another, as He gave us commandment.."1 John 3:23
Bruce H
Posted on Sunday, October 24, 1999 - 4:44 pm:   Edit PostDelete PostPrint Post   Move Post (Moderator/Admin Only)

All Adventist Know the Bible text Daniel 7: 25
25 And he shall speak great words against the most
High, and shall wear out the saints of the most
High, and think to change times and laws: and they
shall be given into his hand until a time and
times and the dividing of time.

I was always told that the law that was changed
was the fourth commandment of the decalogue, when
the sabbath was changed from Saturay to Sunday.
But let us look up the original word found in the
Hebrew text. I found out that the Hebrew word for
Law in Dan 7:25 was not the word Torah which is
used for the Book of the Law and Ten Commandments
(08452 towrah Hebrew). It was the Aramaic word
Dath (01882 dath Aramaic) which means the Gentile
Law or the Gentile Law of the Land. Notice that
the word has Aramaic Gentile origin. This text
is not saying that the Ten Commandments or any of
the 613 Commandments of the Torah will be changed.
It is the local national law or laws that will be
changed. Now I wonder if any of those
theologically trained Adventist pastors knew that.

Lynn W
Posted on Monday, October 25, 1999 - 11:28 am:   Edit PostDelete PostPrint Post   Move Post (Moderator/Admin Only)

Wow! Good show , Bruce. It sure makes a difference considering the 10C comes from the Torah. According to Strong's, dath is not even a Hebrew word. In the usages of law or laws where torah is used, it's either "His laws" or "law of Moses." But dath is the same word used for the law of Medes and Persians.
Timo K
Posted on Monday, October 25, 1999 - 2:02 pm:   Edit PostDelete PostPrint Post   Move Post (Moderator/Admin Only)

Bruce, Room.6 has an interesting combination of three entities in a marrige setting: sin, law, and Christ. Some theologians think that the Law died, in order for us to get married whith Jesus, but theologians like F.F.Bruce points out that we died, and now we are free to marry Jesus. Also Room.7:4 states that we have died, not the Law: "Likewise, my brethren, you have died to the law through the body of Christ."

We are died to the law, because we cannot keep the law as it was ment to be kept. The law does not save us, it only shows that we are sinners before a Righteous God, and then it condemns us. What the law did while we were unsaved, the Holy Spirit is doing now. In that sense the Holy Spirit is "the new Law" for us, but much more. The Holy Spirit points to Jesus our Saviour, after He shows our sinfulness. Those who do not have "Law in their heart" (the Holy Spirit), will have an outer law condemning them. That outer law does not point to Christ.
Posted on Monday, October 25, 1999 - 4:21 pm:   Edit PostDelete PostPrint Post   Move Post (Moderator/Admin Only)

Timo: Galatians 3:24 states "So the law was put in charge to LEAD US TO CHRIST that we might be justified by faith." I am confused, then, by your last sentance, "That outer law does not point to Christ." Who then does it point, given the Galatians passage?
Posted on Monday, October 25, 1999 - 10:57 pm:   Edit PostDelete PostPrint Post   Move Post (Moderator/Admin Only)

I am absolutely convinced that we cannot hope to make sense of Romans or Galatians or Ephesians--or, indeed, any of the Bible, especially the New Testament, without praying for the Holy Spirit to direct us when we read it and without asking him to help us to understand it without any preset convictions. Truth is almost never what we think it will be. Truth is always broader and deeper and more spiritual than we think it will be.

When we are Christ followers and filled with the Holy Spirit, the words of the Bible suddenly come to life, and they do not require analyzing and rationalizing in order to understand them. They are clear and plain. Spiritual awakening is a completely different reality from physical reality. It's something we cannot rationally explain. It's something that makes sense only to the spiritually awake, hence Paul's statement (in I Cor.2:14) that spiritual things are spiritually discerned.

As Geneva pointed out, Galatians does say that the law was given to lead us to Christ. It also makes it clear that one cannot live wth an amalgamation of law and grace. It's one or the other. The paradox is that grace is not lawless. It's just that the law we serve under grace is not the 10. Under grace we serve God himself--Jesus Christ who became our sin, sacrifice, and Savior, and who gave us the Holy Spirit instead of the law.

I tell my ninth graders at school, "Pray before you start your homework. God is interested in the smallest and biggest details of your life. Take him seriously, and ask his help." I'll rephrase that for this forum: Pray before you read the Bible. It is God's word to us, and he cares very much that we understand what he's saying to us. But without his guidance, we can misinterpret the Bible very easily. It's easy to create God and his will in our image.

By the way, I heard a great statement several years ago from a great Bible scholar who's now dead: "If your picture of God is the same today as it was a year ago, you're worshiping a graven image."
Timo K
Posted on Tuesday, October 26, 1999 - 2:34 pm:   Edit PostDelete PostPrint Post   Move Post (Moderator/Admin Only)

Genova, the law shows that we are sinners and the Holy Spirit points to Christ. But showing our sinfulness is also done much better by the Holy Spirit than by the law.

The root of salvation is Jesus+nothing and the fruit of salvation is that the Holy Spirit teaches us more about the Cross. The rooth is accepting Jesus as our Savior+nothing and the fruit is Holy Spirit teaching more and more about Whom we have accepted. The rooth of Salvation is that God sees the Blood+nothing and the fruit of Salvation is that the Holy Spirit teaches us more and more about the precious Blood of Jesus, and we start seeig the Blood also.

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