| Author |
Message |
Riverfonz
Registered user
Username: Riverfonz
Post Number: 45
Registered: 3-2005
| | Posted on Monday, March 14, 2005 - 2:01 pm: |     |
Jeremy, As follow-up to occultism and EGW. Have you seen the article, "Messenger or Medium", by John Keyser on the Mayo site www.sda-egw.com? You then have to follow the link to their millenium site, and then scroll down a long way to articles. If you have read it, what do you think? Thanks, Stan |
Greg
Registered user
Username: Greg
Post Number: 68
Registered: 2-2005
| | Posted on Monday, March 14, 2005 - 8:30 pm: | |
I just located the "Messenger or Medium" article. I haven't read it yet, but I'm posting the link here, because it wasn't easy to find.
Greg |
Susan_2
Registered user
Username: Susan_2
Post Number: 1688
Registered: 11-2002
| | Posted on Monday, March 14, 2005 - 9:42 pm: | |
Colleen, I just read the article from the link above. Could you get permission from whoever wrote that aticle to print it in Proclamation! It would be good to do that because many people will read a magazine but will not investigate on the Internet. People still equate what they read in magazies and books as being true but will disregard what they read from computers. I always thought EGW was just plain totlly possessed. And, to be ever so bold, there is an evil prevailing the cults that were founded on deception. I think that is a very fair thing to say because just read what so many of us say about how our SDA loved ones treet us when they find out we have converted to Christian. It is like an evil spirit comes over the SDA's and even the name of Jesus makes them uncomfortable. |
Greg
Registered user
Username: Greg
Post Number: 70
Registered: 2-2005
| | Posted on Tuesday, March 15, 2005 - 5:16 am: | |
I must admit I was not totally compelled by the "Messenger or Medium" article. The tone of the article sometimes sounds like shouting, with the extensive use of ALL CAPS. The comparisons between EGW and the other demon-posessed women was interesting, but not at all proof for her demon posession. Much of the material against EGW derived from descriptions in Ron Numbers' book "Prophetess of Health". It would be much more convincing to read primary quotes from the EGW source material. Furthermore, the evidence of the "handsome man" and quotes from James White about EGW's periodic "posession" (from the Kellogg deposition) were not included. These would have made the overall case more compelling.
My sense is that if an Adventist came across that article, they would dismiss it out of hand as blustery, anti-EGW rhetoric. Her writings themselves are the biggest indictment against her, and should therefore be the central focus of any arguments questioning the source of her teachings and prophecies.
In Christ,
Greg |
Tracey
Registered user
Username: Tracey
Post Number: 259
Registered: 9-2004
| | Posted on Tuesday, March 15, 2005 - 5:23 am: | |
I would like to know where I can get information of incorrect teachings from the book Patriarchs and Prophets, b/c this is the book that C has.
Thanks,
Tracey |
Greg
Registered user
Username: Greg
Post Number: 72
Registered: 2-2005
| | Posted on Tuesday, March 15, 2005 - 5:55 am: | |
Here's an example of what I mean by EGW's writings being the strongest indictment against her.
quote:We are not to receive the words of those who come with a message that contradicts the special points of our faith. They gather together a mass of Scripture, and pile it as proof around their asserted theories. This has been done over and over again during the past fifty years. And while the Scriptures are God's word, and are to be respected, the application of them, if such application moves one pillar from the foundation that God has sustained these fifty years, is a great mistake. He who makes such an application knows not the wonderful demonstration of the Holy Spirit that gave power and force to the past messages that have come to the people of God. -Selected Messages Book 1, pg. 161
This statement alone is evidence that a force was using EGW to move people away from a Scripture-based understanding of God, instead relying on her spirit-based interpretations and prophecies. This is truly scary.
Greg |
Greg
Registered user
Username: Greg
Post Number: 73
Registered: 2-2005
| | Posted on Tuesday, March 15, 2005 - 7:18 am: | |
Not to beat a dead horse, but here's another quote from the next page in Selected Messages:
quote: In the days of the apostles the most foolish heresies were presented as truth. History has been and will be repeated. There will always be those who, though apparently conscientious, will grasp at the shadow, preferring it to the substance. They take error in the place of truth, because error is clothed with a new garment, which they think covers something wonderful. But let the covering be removed, and nothingness appears. -Selected Messages Book 162.4
These statements are very interesting in light of the contrast between shadow and substance Paul makes in Colossians 2:16-17.
Greg |
Belvalew
Registered user
Username: Belvalew
Post Number: 212
Registered: 7-2004
| | Posted on Tuesday, March 15, 2005 - 9:08 am: | |
Oh Greg, how true. Our heated debates with Colporteur and Walks_In_The_Light over on the R/S site have been an absolute reflection of the Shadow/Substance representation. EGW's quote above makes it sound like the SDA's would be the ones championing the substance. Sadly, that is not the case.
Belva |
Jeremy
Registered user
Username: Jeremy
Post Number: 440
Registered: 10-2004
| | Posted on Tuesday, March 15, 2005 - 10:32 am: | |
EGW even says this:
quote:"In Eden, God set up the memorial of His work of creation, in placing His blessing upon the seventh day. The Sabbath was committed to Adam, the father and representative of the whole human family. Its observance was to be an act of grateful acknowledgment, on the part of all who should dwell upon the earth, that God was their Creator and their rightful Sovereign; that they were the work of His hands and the subjects of His authority. Thus the institution was wholly commemorative, and given to all mankind. There was nothing in it shadowy or of restricted application to any people." (Patriarchs and Prophets, page 48, paragraph 1.)
Tracey,
That above quote comes from Patriarchs and Prophets.  There is also a web site which has a huge section just about the problems in Patriarchs and Prophets, where this guy goes through the first 18 chapters or so of the book, pointing out the problems.
I think I found the right web site, but it appears the server is down or something--I can't access the site. Here is the link: http://www.bitterscroll.com/patscontents.htm
Even if you can't access it, though, you can still read it by using archive.org: http://web.archive.org/web/20040206212807/http://www.bitterscroll.com/patscontents.htm
Jeremy
(Message edited by jeremy on March 15, 2005) |
Tracey
Registered user
Username: Tracey
Post Number: 260
Registered: 9-2004
| | Posted on Tuesday, March 15, 2005 - 10:35 am: | |
thanks so much Jeremy.. Frankly, I don't understand that paragraph thatyou cut and pasted above for me.
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Jeremy
Registered user
Username: Jeremy
Post Number: 441
Registered: 10-2004
| | Posted on Tuesday, March 15, 2005 - 10:42 am: | |
In the above quote, EGW is saying that the Sabbath was not a "shadow"--thus contradicting Colossians 2:16-17. (And she also says that it was for all people, starting with Adam--not just for the Jews. She even says that there was nothing in it that was only for a certain group of people!)
Jeremy
(Message edited by jeremy on March 15, 2005) |
Riverfonz
Registered user
Username: Riverfonz
Post Number: 49
Registered: 3-2005
| | Posted on Tuesday, March 15, 2005 - 1:47 pm: | |
I think I agree with you Greg about that Keyser article. His documentation in a lot of cases was poor, but there were a lot of good points made about comparing the physical feats of strength purported to be from God, but in fact similar feats documented with certain forms of epilepsy as well as demonic manifestations. Stan |
Tracey
Registered user
Username: Tracey
Post Number: 264
Registered: 9-2004
| | Posted on Tuesday, March 15, 2005 - 8:03 pm: | |
Thanks for the link, Jeremy, i got some AWESOME ammo!
Tracey |
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