| Author |
Message |
Timmy
Registered user
Username: Timmy
Post Number: 102
Registered: 8-2006
| | Posted on Monday, October 30, 2006 - 6:52 pm: |     |
For a short but powerful witness by Gil Prost,
on how the Holy Spirit writes the laws on the hearts of believers in Jesus, click here... http://www.formeradventist.com/prost.html
"...These principles of righteousness and sin were already there because they were "written on their hearts" (Rom. 2:18) and they were fully aware of them. In fact, it is these universal moral laws "written laws on the heart" which make men and women everywhere moral human beings and not animals. They are innate!..." |
Flyinglady
Registered user
Username: Flyinglady
Post Number: 2968
Registered: 3-2004
| | Posted on Monday, October 30, 2006 - 7:09 pm: | |
Timmy, that was very enlightening and interesting. Diana |
Loneviking
Registered user
Username: Loneviking
Post Number: 484
Registered: 7-2000
| | Posted on Monday, October 30, 2006 - 7:29 pm: | |
Walk wrote:
You asked, "Will you please tell me where the 10 Commandments separate from the rest (603 rules) of the law?"
Well, first of all, were the 603 rules written by the finger of God? No.
Were the 603 written in Stone? No.
Were the 603 IN the Ark of the covenant? No.
Those three differences alone should show that the 10 commandments had a more significant status than the rest of the laws.
---------------------------------------------
Well, this is a perfect example of the type of SDA reasoning I was talking about. It looks good until you start looking at what the Bible really says:
Ex. 31:18, and Ex. 32:15 both call the tablets 'the tablets of testimony', no mention of ten commandments. In fact, Ex. 32:15 records that the tablets were written on both front and back.
Ex. 24:12 refers to 'the stone tablets with the law and the commandment'....not just one item.
Ex. 34:28 is the only reference that calls them The Ten Commandments'.
Even then, your argument about the law doesn't work. Hebrews 8:13 says 'When He said, "A new covenant", He has made the first obsolete. But whatever is becoming obsolete and growing old is ready to disappear'.
And what is the author referring to?
Heb. 9:1 'Now even the first covenant had regulations of divine worship and the earthly sanctuary'.
Did you get that Walk? The Ten Commandments are not identified as the covenant. Instead, regulations of divine worship and the earthly sanctuary are. So, what was on those tablets was not just the Ten Commandments, but all 613 commandments, including those regulations of divine worship. And they were done away with. |
Agapetos
Registered user
Username: Agapetos
Post Number: 456
Registered: 10-2002
| | Posted on Monday, October 30, 2006 - 7:30 pm: | |
Walk,
Hope you're almost finished with the five questions. 
By the way, Paul also said, "Christ is the end of the Law for those who believe." But I digress. I want to stay with the theme of the "last will and testament."
Good luck, blessings, and happy reading!
In Christ,
Ramone |
Loneviking
Registered user
Username: Loneviking
Post Number: 485
Registered: 7-2000
| | Posted on Monday, October 30, 2006 - 7:34 pm: | |
Breaking the 10 commandments was punishable by death. What about the ceremonial laws?
---------------------------------
The Day of Atonement was a ceremonial sabbath. It was sacred and breaking that day was punishable by death. So, if God could make that day sacred, punishable by death and then do away with that requirement---tell me why you think He couldn't do that with the Seventh Day Sabbath? Is that day bigger than the God you believe in?
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Susans
Registered user
Username: Susans
Post Number: 74
Registered: 8-2006
| | Posted on Monday, October 30, 2006 - 7:44 pm: | |
I Timonthy 1:3-11
3 I urged you when I went into Macedonia, stay there in Ephesus so that you may command certain men not to teach false doctrines any longer
4 nor to devote themselves to myths and endless genealogies. These promote controversies rather than God's workówhich is by faith.
5 The goal of this command is love, which comes from a pure heart and a good conscience and a sincere faith.
6 Some have wandered away from these and turned to meaningless talk.
7 They want to be teachers of the law, but they do not know what they are talking about or what they so confidently affirm.
8 We know that the law is good if one uses it properly.
9 We also know that law is made not for the righteous but for lawbreakers and rebels, the ungodly and sinful, the unholy and irreligious; for those who kill their fathers or mothers, for murderers,
10 for adulterers and perverts, for slave traders and liars and perjurersóand for whatever else is contrary to the sound doctrine
11 that conforms to the glorious gospel of the blessed God, which he entrusted to me. |
U2bsda
Registered user
Username: U2bsda
Post Number: 300
Registered: 11-2004
| | Posted on Monday, October 30, 2006 - 8:32 pm: | |
The Children of Isreal were by nature sinful beings and they needed external regulations. No person could live up to those regulations. Jesus was the only one to fulfill the requirements of the law.
The Christian has been reborn and has the Holy Spirit within. The law in our hearts is not based any external regulations. We have the Holy Spirit within as our guide. Now by nature the Christian through the indwelling of the Holy Spirit will not desire to murder or steal. The Christian has had a heart change. |
Esther
Registered user
Username: Esther
Post Number: 357
Registered: 5-2004
| | Posted on Tuesday, October 31, 2006 - 8:43 am: | |
Walk wrote:
You asked, "Will you please tell me where the 10 Commandments separate from the rest (603 rules) of the law?"
Well, first of all, were the 603 rules written by the finger of God? No.
Were the 603 written in Stone? No.
Were the 603 IN the Ark of the covenant? No.
Those three differences alone should show that the 10 commandments had a more significant status than the rest of the laws.
---------------------------------------------
Walk, not only have others addressed the issue of the 10 c's being a whole unit of the law, you yourself inferred that the tablets of stone being placed in the "Ark of the Covenant" meant they had greater significance. Might you allow me to point out a few verses?
Deuteronomy 5:2-3
The Lord our God made a covenant with us at Horeb.
The Lord did not make this covenant with our fathers, but with us, with all those of us alive here today.
Now bear with me cause this is a bit long, but all relevant:
Galatians 4:21-31;5:1
21 Tell me, you who want to be under law, do you not listen to the law?
22 For it is written that Abraham had two sons, one by the bondwoman and one by the free woman.
23 But the son by the bondwoman was born according to the flesh, and the son by the free woman through the promise.
24 This is allegorically speaking, for these women are two covenants: one proceeding from Mount Sinai bearing children who are to be slaves; she is Hagar.
25 Now this Hagar is Mount Sinai in Arabia and corresponds to the present Jerusalem, for she is in slavery with her children.
26 But the Jerusalem above is free; she is our mother.
27 For it is written, "REJOICE, BARREN WOMAN WHO DOES NOT BEAR; BREAK FORTH AND SHOUT, YOU WHO ARE NOT IN LABOR; FOR MORE NUMEROUS ARE THE CHILDREN OF THE DESOLATE THAN OF THE ONE WHO HAS A HUSBAND."
28 And you brethren, like Isaac, are children of promise.
29 But as at that time he who was born according to the flesh persecuted him who was born according to the Spirit, so it is now also.
30 But what does the Scripture say? "CAST OUT THE BONDWOMAN AND HER SON, FOR THE SON OF THE BONDWOMAN SHALL NOT BE AN HEIR WITH THE SON OF THE FREE WOMAN."
31 So then, brethren, we are not children of a bondwoman, but of the free woman.
1 It was for freedom that Christ set us free; therefore keep standing firm and do not be subject again to a yoke of slavery.
Hebrews 7:22
so much the more also Jesus has become the guarantee of a better covenant.
Sorry about the caps....they were in the text I copied to show a quote...and were not me raising my voice |
Grace_alone
Registered user
Username: Grace_alone
Post Number: 262
Registered: 6-2006
| | Posted on Tuesday, October 31, 2006 - 9:31 am: | |
Esther, awesome texts! Thank you for sharing.
Jesus bought our freedom with his blood. He brought us a new BETTER (than the old) covenant free from the law. Not only that, but we are SEALED with the Holy Spirit! If that's not good news, I don't know what is.
Thank you Jesus! |
Jeremy
Registered user
Username: Jeremy
Post Number: 1580
Registered: 10-2004
| | Posted on Tuesday, October 31, 2006 - 11:40 am: | |
And to add to those verses by Esther, Deuteronomy 4:13 tells us exactly what that Old Covenant from Sinai was that we are to cast out according to the above passage from Galatians:
"So He declared to you His covenant which He commanded you to perform, that is, the Ten Commandments; and He wrote them on two tablets of stone." (NASB.)
So, as Esther was saying, what made the Ten Commandments have such significance was that they were the covenant from Sinai. But, it has absolutely nothing to do with them being eternal, since we are told that that covenant is obsolete (Hebrews 8:13) and that we are to cast it out (Galatians 4:30).
Jeremy |
Jeremy
Registered user
Username: Jeremy
Post Number: 1581
Registered: 10-2004
| | Posted on Tuesday, October 31, 2006 - 11:44 am: | |
Does the Ten Commandments ("words" not "commandments" in the original Hebrew) being written on stone signify that they are to last forever? Is this idea Biblical?
See 2 Corinthians 3 for the answer.
Jeremy |
U2bsda
Registered user
Username: U2bsda
Post Number: 301
Registered: 11-2004
| | Posted on Tuesday, October 31, 2006 - 12:06 pm: | |
I agree Jeremy.
Hebrews 9:1-4 says "1 Then indeed, even the first covenant had ordinances of divine service and the earthly sanctuary. 2 For a tabernacle was prepared: the first part, in which was the lampstand, the table, and the showbread, which is called the sanctuary; 3 and behind the second veil, the part of the tabernacle which is called the Holiest of All, 4 which had the golden censer and the ark of the covenant overlaid on all sides with gold, in which were the golden pot that had the manna, Aaronís rod that budded, and the tablets of the covenant;"
Notice the tablets in the ark of the covenant were the tablets of the covenant which is also described as the first covenant. If you keep reading in that chapter you will find a description of the new covenant.
2 Corinthians 3 describes the tablets of stone as a ministry of death. "7Now if the ministry that brought death, which was engraved in letters on stone, came with glory, so that the Israelites could not look steadily at the face of Moses because of its glory, fading though it was, 8will not the ministry of the Spirit be even more glorious? 9If the ministry that condemns men is glorious, how much more glorious is the ministry that brings righteousness!"
Those two texts are only a portion of the texts in the Bible that describe the tablets of stone as the first covenant or old covenant and that there is now a new covenant.
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Timmy
Registered user
Username: Timmy
Post Number: 104
Registered: 8-2006
| | Posted on Tuesday, October 31, 2006 - 12:18 pm: | |
Jeremy, It is always interesting to agree that the old covenant was written with Gods finger, but then point out that the new covenant was written in his blood.
This is a significant difference. |
Bigal
Registered user
Username: Bigal
Post Number: 24
Registered: 9-2006
| | Posted on Tuesday, October 31, 2006 - 1:00 pm: | |
I have to say that I am uplifted by all of your comments lately. I have just discovered the new covenant in the past several months (veil lifted) and cannot get enough of it.
I read "old covenant was written with God's finger,but ... new covenant was written in His blood." That just gives me (good) chills. Incredible the learning and revealing that is happening in my life. Keep it comming.
Alan |
Jwd
Registered user
Username: Jwd
Post Number: 256
Registered: 4-2005
| | Posted on Tuesday, October 31, 2006 - 2:55 pm: | |
I think the current "recognized" number of laws within the Torah is 613. See! It just got even harder! :c)
Keep in mind there is no Biblical reference to moral code, moral law. These are theological
additives. The word "moral" is not even found in Scripture.
And...how can the 4th commandment be said to be a "moral" requirement? It deals only with time and work and non-work. Morals have primarily to do with "conduct," right or wrong conduct.....in relation to another; God and one's neighbor. |
Timmy
Registered user
Username: Timmy
Post Number: 105
Registered: 8-2006
| | Posted on Tuesday, October 31, 2006 - 6:29 pm: | |
Alan, Martin Luther once said that a single drop of Christ blood would have been enough to atone the sins of the entire world, but he gave it all! That blows my mind!
Someone posted earlier that Christ is the focus from the pulpit now, not laws... I couldn't agree more... |
Susans
Registered user
Username: Susans
Post Number: 75
Registered: 8-2006
| | Posted on Tuesday, October 31, 2006 - 7:51 pm: | |
Esther,
Those verses in Galatians set me free! When I was doing my paper on Galatians I then went back to Exodus to read about the giving of the 10 commandments. I was shocked to find that there was no blood sacrifice for this convenant separate from the other laws given to Moses on Mt Sinai. What??? You mean the 10 commandments were part of the ENTIRE law? Whoah!
As I said in my testimony at the beginning of this thread, from that point on there was no turning back. Galatians and Colossians speak for us today. Romans and Hebrews adds to our understanding about the New Covenant. Praise God that He has provided BETTER promises, a BETTER way!
Timmy, what you posted about the old covenant being written with God's finger but the new covenant with His blood just about blew me away! I have to admit I haven't placed those two side by side in quite that way before. That's incredibly powerful! I will remember that the next time my SDA friends make that statement to me.
Alan, I know where you are, brother! Hold on to your hat, you are in for the experience of your life! The truth has set you free indeed!
My heart is so full tonight. Praise the Lord!
Susan |
Agapetos
Registered user
Username: Agapetos
Post Number: 466
Registered: 10-2002
| | Posted on Thursday, November 02, 2006 - 11:37 pm: | |
WalkOnWater,
I hope you had a blessed Reformation Day, and I pray that we can continue talking here. Maybe a new thread is in order? This one is getting a bit crowded.
Okay, I re-posted the questions at an all-new thread here: http://rtinker.powweb.com/discus/discus/messages/11/4867.html?1162539357
When you're ready, you can post what you found there. Thanks!
Blessings & love in Christ,
Ramone |
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